Transcript
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Hello and welcome to the consumer VC. I am your host, Michael but
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and on this show we talked about
the world adventure capital and innovation in both
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consumer technology and consumer products. If
you're enjoying this content, you could subscribe
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to by newsletter the consumer VC DOT
sub stackcom, to get each new episode
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and more consumer news delivered straight to
your inbox. Our guest today is amy
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lacy, founder of Califlower foods.
Califlower makes craveable comfort food that's always low
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card, with simple fashion ingredients and
no fillers. That includes pizzas, crusts,
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flatbreads, crackers and full on entrees. We discuss why amy became an
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entrepreneur, how she created a cauliflower
pizza recipe that wasn't brittle and didn't fall
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apart, her approach to brand and
sales early on, why she decided a
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partner with a retail focus investor as
opposed to any commerce focus one, how
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they change their packaging when they entered
stores, and much, much more.
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Without further ADO, here's amy.
Amy, thank you so much for coming
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on the show and for being here. How are you? I'm doing great.
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Thank you so much. I'm honoring
to be here. I've been enjoying
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listening to pass yes, I'm so
relating to people that you've interviewed with,
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so I can't wait to get started
and talk about the journey that califlower foods
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has been on. First of all, thanks so much for listening. Really
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means a lot. I know we've
been trying to get you on the show
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for the past few months, so
I'm so excited that we were finally able
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to make it happen. Yes,
this is going to be great and really
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fun to chat thank you. Started
from the very beginning, a Mey.
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What was your initial attraction or start
in entrepreneurship? So when I was fourteen
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I created my own babysitting service and
swim lessons, and that's where it really
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started and I got a taste of
what it's like to market to people and
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be your own boss. And then
after that I worked for corporate after college
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and then when I had my kids, I was a stayathome mom, but
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I was still having the itch to
have my own business. So I did
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an online children's store in two thousand
and two and that really gave me the
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creative desire to keep doing things on
e commerce. I love being the flexibility
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that that brings and being able to
reach a lot of people. So I
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swayed away from a little bit about
ten years later and I actually brought some
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medical lasers over to New Zealand,
which is where my husband's family's from,
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and what I just saw in need, and I knew the the entrepreneur that
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had created the lasers and I saw
in need over in New Zealand for those.
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They were actually lasers to treat on
income. My Pass. Do you
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know what that is? I do
not. Actually it's tone help on is.
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Wow, is really gross. New
Zealanders are very active and a lot
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of them get toenail fungus and the
only thing at that time that was available
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is a prescription drug that really had
terrible side effects. So I saw a
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need there. I had a friend
that created the laser and so we bought
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a couple lasers. I've partnered with
my cousin by marriage and we ended up
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working with the pediatrist that had ten
different locations in New Zealand and really just
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killing it, doing really well,
and then I sold that off to her
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because the kids were little it was
too hard to go back and forth from
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New Zealand and after that I became
sick. Actually, I got really sick
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and I became a life and health
coach to really heal myself, and that's
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where my journey into eating grain free
gluten free foods came about. That's amazing.
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Talk to you a little bit about
baby, your nutrition journey and when
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you started to think about cauliflower or
doing some experimentations with cauliflower and pizza.
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Like I told you, I was
a life and health coach and I was
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really I had gotten myself healthy and
I was really trying to pay it forward
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and just coach people on how to
do things. I wasn't a nutrition or
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exercise coach, I just literally was
teaching people how to use food as medicine
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and we were doing these healthy happy
hours every Thursday night, which doesn't mean
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happy hours with alcohol. It meant
like healthy foods, healthy smoothies, and
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I I found I used to do
Friday family fun night, which was either
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Games and pizza or a movie and
pizza with my kids. I have three
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kids. And when I got really
sick, I wasn't able to eat the
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pizza. I could tell that I
was really inflamed on Saturday morning. So
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that was the first thing I was
looking for was a healthy pasta and a
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healthy pizza and I came across a
recipe that I found online for this cauliflower
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pizza cress and I was very skeptical
because I didn't eat cauliflower. I didn't
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even really like cauliflower. And,
as you know before the cauliflower craze,
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cauliflowers like the last loan ranger standing
on a Veggie tray at a party or
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a Super Barrow Party or wherever you're
at. We nobody eat ate the cauliflower
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and at the grocery store it was
just a had a cauliflower. Nobody was
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doing cauliflower rice or any of that. So we experimented. People, my
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clients and my other health coaches clients
love the cauliflower pizza cress and the Zucchini
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noodles, so we were serving those
at every healthy happy hour and that's how
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I discovered cauliflower. And the amazing
thing about cauliflowers it's so bland it takes
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on whatever flavors you put with it. So I was really impressed with the
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vegetable when I first started working on
it, but the first couple pizzas I
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made fell apart probably about nine of
them and then I discovered actually my daughter's
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like, why don't you try the
juicer? We had a juicer. We
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were making juices and stuff, and
I saw that's a great idea, because
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we weren't able to get enough of
the water out just using cheese cloth and
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it was falling apart. So we
used the juicer and it was consistent every
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time and it was amazing. I
was just about to ask how were you
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had you first when you were thinking
about turning cauliflower into dough like when it
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came to a pizza, how are
you able to work with caullifier because it
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is so brittle? So the juicer
was really like the mechanism that actually be
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able to get the water out and
then be able to actually use it as
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proper dough. Yes, and you
can add things to it. I wasn't
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doing this at the time. I
wasn't adding almond flower, but I was
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adding cheese as a binder and egg
as a binder. So really the egg
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was the binding ingredient to make it
more dough like. And you're just doing
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this kind of experimenting. Were you
would all thinking about that? This could
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be a business or just something that
could be helpful to clients. How are
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you kind of thinking about it?
Just helpful to clients. And then one
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of my clients is like, where
I lived in northern California, farmer's market
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was a really big deal. So
one of my clients was like, you
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should take this to farmer's market and
we did and it blew up at farmers
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market and a couple local grocery stores
picked us up. Again, nothing's in
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the stores anywhere but ahead of cauliflower
at this time, and we just discovered
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that people really wanted it. I
started getting calls before farmer's market to pick
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it up at my house, so
I was getting a cottage license. I
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got so busy we actually spent Christmas
that year, that was two thousand and
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sixteen, in New Zealand and I
had one person helping me, a friend
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that was helping me. She was
actually my stetition and she was helping me
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and she called me while I was
in New Zealand and she said have you
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seen the sales? And I wasn't
really paying attention. I had a shop
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of by website. We mostly sold
in the grocery store, local grocery store,
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local restaurant picked us up, and
then farmers market and we just started
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selling like crazy from this one ad
that we put out on facebook and in
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January two thousand and seventeen, we
sold more in one month than we had
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the entire two years previous with the
business. So I knew we hit something
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and it just kept building up and
by the end of that year two thousand
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and seventeen, we had done over
five million and had not burned a dime
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building the five million sales on e
commerce, which we quickly had to put
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in systems and find co packers.
I mean we just grew so fast,
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so quickly. So what came first
when you first started? White became califlower?
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Do you first start by looking at
DDC online channel, or did you
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first start in the actual farmer's market
itself? So we first started in farmers
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market and then a couple grocery stores
picked us up and then I said let's
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put this online and see what happens. And when we went to farmers market
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we had the Zucchini noodles. Nobody
was doing that yet. You could make
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the Zucchini noodles, the tools were
out there, but there was you couldn't
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buy them already done in the grocery
store. So we did the Zucchini noodles
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and we did the cauliflower pizza crest
and we had two flavors when we went
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to farmers market. We our sweet
red bell pepper and then our traditional original
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Italian and I was like, okay, I can take one of these products
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to e calm, but I can't
take both because it's going to take a
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lot of money. And so I
picked the cauliflower pizza cress because it was
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really hard to make and I thought
that would be easier to provide to my
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consumer and we loved it so much, because the pizza crest was sub versatile.
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You could make Tacos, you could
do it, you could use it
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as bread, so it seemed like
the better product to take to market.
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What do you first started? Like? Sales doing really, really well for
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Califlower. Online it's booming and of
course, I'd imagine the Zukii is still
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selling really well in stores. Or
were even sources as well? With Zukii
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or now? No, we never
launched the Zukinian stores. It's really expensive
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to launch a product. So I
had to pick one of them because I
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was funding it myself. And I
picked the cauliflower pizza cress because it was
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hard to make and I figured it's
going to be hard people want to buy
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it because it'll be hard for them
to make, and it was more versatile.
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There's a lot you could do with
it. Totally that makes sense.
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And it's two thousand and seventeen year
at five billion in sales. That right,
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a little over, yes, without
burning any money. So yeah,
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had a very small team, mostly
focused on e calm. We really shared
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our customers and their success stories by
using our product, and one of those
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stories went viral and that's how we
started really selling a lot. And we
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didn't really have any competitors. There
was one other cauliflower pizza, crest out,
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but they named themselves basically a Veggie
pizza and so they weren't a cauliflower
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pizza and then they soon changed to
cauliflower pizza, but we didn't have any
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main competitors when we first launched.
So I think that's one of the reasons
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why we boom so quickly and grew
so quickly. But two thousand and eighteen
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was an incredible year as well.
We grew too, over almost twenty million
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actually, and we were the number
one pizza crest on Amazon for multiple months.
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We beat out bobally and several pizza
crest. We weren't just the number
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one cauliflower crest, we were the
number one pizza crest. Wow, that's
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incredible. Number one pizza creuse,
I mean yeah, also it also is
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quite quite fascinating to just overall consumer
preference changes. That the number one pizza
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crest, you know online. Yes, it was you and that's, you
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know, incredible, but it's pretty
within like the better for you space.
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I mean I've been the better for
you space, just in the overall space.
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When it came to pizza dough,
a lot of people were buying,
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you know, cauliflower pizza dough versus
roll pizza dough. The category has grown
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massively. I mean there's just so
many cauliflower products out there. So,
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like I said, when we launched
there was one other company out there that
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called themselves a veggie pizza but there
wasn't a lot of our major competitors that
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we have today. Weren't didn't exist
yet. Got It. You're benefiting a
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lot from being first to market,
which is amazing, and I also think
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it's really impressive that even though.
Well, you're previously saying about how you
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weren't standing a dime on marketing.
Or were you? We weren't using a
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marketing agency yet, but once the
facebook add that we did went viral and
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it was of a story of an
actual client that really benefited from eating gluten
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free and grain free and low carb
once we shared that story, we saw
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the benefit of using ads online as
well as email. We started using email
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and growing our email list. How. Also, do you think you know
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had on Madeline Haydn, who is
the founder of n pods. Do you
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know her? Well? Yeah,
love her awesome. I run into her
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a few times and she actually introduced
me to circle up, which was our
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first investor as a bridge loan,
and I love those guys so much and
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madeline really helped me. So many
people say this like, if you don't
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have experience, surround yourself with people
who have been there and done that before,
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and I consider Madeline a mentor.
Definitely. That's awesome. That's great.
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Yeah, huge fan of Madeline and
really appreciate her on a heaven her
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on. One of the things that
I thought was maybe the beauty about selling
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online and e commerce is that kind
of customer feedback wheel being so quick with
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reviews and she said that it helped
her so much when she then went into
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retail. I know you were first
in retail before, you know, online,
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but you were in a couple source
but with battle and she said it
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helped finalize the packaging. What the
right terminology that customers really resonating with.
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And I love to hear your perspective
of with this idea about getting the customer
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involved and what you learn from the
story brand summit or conference that you attended.
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How did you kind of include the
customer on your journey or just it
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could be learnings that you saw through
feedback that actually maybe iterated the product or
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the branding for a califlower? Yeah, absolutely so. We were early on
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just in a couple local stores.
So as soon as we started getting multiple
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customers online, right away out we
were doing survey monkeys. We were asking
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them to reach out and tell us
what they wanted, what we could do
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to improve the product, how the
product came to them, where they a
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hundred percent satisfied. I mean almost
every single customer had some kind of touch
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from us, whether it was an
email or it was me writing a hand
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written note to them and then we
really studied the data and I think dad
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is really important to prior to going
into grocery because you do get instant feedback
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from e commerce. So I looked
at our repeat customer rate or open rates
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on our emails, what was happening
on our ads. Every single person that
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commented on facebook or Instagram was responded
to immediately by our team. I had
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several people working on those, twenty
four Seve Evan and just studying the data
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of shopify and who was buying and
their repeat purchases. And one of the
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things we learned is people would buy
a starter pack. We had a starter
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pack, and then those same people
will come back and buy like three times
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the amounts. So our starter pack
might have been forty five because ECAMMA is
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expensive because of the shipping, and
then that same customer would come back and
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buy over eighty, over ninety dollars, over a hundred dollars, and then
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some customers were buying multiple times a
month. So we really paid attention to
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those customers. We thank them,
we asked them their opinion on what they
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wanted and really try to focus our
new products based on our customer feedback.
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No that's great. I know that
you you hinted at circle up coming in
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out of your bridge round. What
point did you decide to raise venture capital
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and why that was the right move
for the company? So early on I
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was really scrappy. I mean I
had no money. I was putting all
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the money back into the business.
I had hired a bunch of my friends
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to come alongside me. They were
really passionate about the brand. They treated
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it like it was their own business. We went on a world when tour
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of the cast to Hamilton was using
our products, so we started doing pizza
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parties for them. In New York
we went to the SB's, the Emmy's,
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the teen choice awards. We were
a pizza in the background like the
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night before the event. Met a
lot of celebrities that loved our products started
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promoting it. So we were growing
even faster because of all of that publicity.
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And I lived in northern California.
That's where our business, our Home
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Office was at the time and we
also had a little mini pizza bar inside
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of a grocery store that we were
doing as well. And so the camp
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fires that hit northern California, the
town of Paradise and that was November of
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two thousand and eighteen and that really
affected my family. Although I didn't live
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in paradise, I lived about twenty
minutes away. My family was in my
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house. I was actually down in
La doing some work project, the influencer
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project, and I flew emergently home
to and I couldn't even get to my
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house. But that whole I mean
we were using in ninety five masks for
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months because the air quality was so
bad. So I had a taste of
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what it's like to wear a mask
for months before covid ever hit, and
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it really prompted me to think,
okay, I'm the CEO and the CFO
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and really my team's the CMO and
I'm gone a lot and my family needs
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me. So I had already been
offered by a couple people like low,
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offers like well, it sounds great
now and I sometimes think I should have
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taken it. But I had somebody
offer me at fancy food ten million to
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buy my product, to take over
the company, and I turned them down
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because we were doing almost twenty million
and I started thinking, well, there's
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a there's a lot of people that
are interested in this product and maybe it's
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time for me to get some help. And then the thing that really fielded
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is I got a call one day
from Walmart. Now, I didn't reach
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out to them, I didn't.
I had one sales rep, but they
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called me. So I flew out
to Bentonville and I was kind of like,
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I don't think our products a walmart
product. We were in whole foods
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southern California and quite a few southern
California stores by now, and I thought
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I just don't think it's the right, right fit. But I it's Walmart
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and they're calling you right, so
I of course I have to go.
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And I went and they had a
new buyer. She was a very young
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buyer and she paid a lot of
tension to influencers and we had an influencer
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named Aaron Oprea. She's actually been
in people magazine and she charged me very
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little because she was so passionate about
the brand. Did a lot of non
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paid promotions of the brand and so
I ended up hiring her as an influencer
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and that buyer at Walmart loved Aaron
Oprea. She is the trainer to several
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country stars country. She lives out
in Nashville. So, like Carrie Underwood
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is her client and a lot of
very famous people, and so this buyer
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loves her. had been watching her, learned about our product from her and
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then picked up the phone and called
this and when I went out there,
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she said, I want you to
be in every Walmart store and I want
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all of your skews and Walmart.
And by then we had four different crests
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and we were in the process of
bringing in crackers and Pasta and in our
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restaurant we were serving Laz Onnya and
enchiladas. And so I knew I had
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no experience. I also knew that
you never want to put all your eggs
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in one basket and I knew this
was going to be a big Po and
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I thought, okay, I've got
a great copacker. Now I've got production
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set up. Like John from Sonoma
Brands, I did a handshake deal with
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a couple people and got burned.
So yeah, I was like okay,
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when he was talking about that,
I'm like, I've been there. So
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actually, one of the handshake deals
cost me, in the long run,
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six hundred and Fiftyzero dollars to have
them go away. I don't believe in
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suing people and I had lawyers say
you need to you need to sue.
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I just think it's too much negative
in energy and time and I've been sued
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by another brand in the space and
I just don't believe in putting your energy
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in their negative energy comes back negatively. But anyways, when I got the
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Walmart contract, I was like,
okay, I've got fires and my family
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living in my house with all their
pets and I've got this key O and
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I'm out of my league and my
team were out of our league. So
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that's when I thought, okay,
I need to start meeting with people and
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I don't want just money, because
I feel like I'm really set with the
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money part because the business was doing
so well. But I want strategy.
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I need some help and I had
a great advisor. I'm going I always
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recommend surrounding yourself with people have been
there and done that. I had bought
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Burke was one of my advisors.
He's on our board. He was amazing
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and I just felt like it was
time to go out there and look for
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a strategic to help me and to
help me grow. And Steve Hughes and
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reached out to me. He saw
an article about us and he had actually
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reached out to me when we were
about a five million dollar brand and I
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had a great conversation with him and
a year later he asked me to come
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out to their Boulder Home Office.
So I went out there and met with
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their team and Steve was not an
investment banker. His partner is, but
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he wasn't. And of course he's
built he's like an icon in the industry.
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You've interviewed him and he had built
healthy yeah, healthy choice. He
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built boulder brands. I think he
was heavily involved in celestial seasons and tropic
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canna juice. So and Steve is
really open and he shares a lot about
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what he's done and who he is
and he kind of would me over in
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the meeting, like he did a
lot of talking and he he shared a
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lot of success and some of it
he was very humble. Shared some of
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his downfalls, which I had already
had, like some of the things I
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had done cost me some money.
I made mistakes because we were growing so
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fast. I had just got a
contract also from Abram's publishing in New York,
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which was probably we were really busy
in California and New York. So
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I was going out to New York
a lot and I was doing a cookbook
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and I thought, okay, I'm
really distracted by the cookbook. I really
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need a strategic partner. So that's
what I looked for and that's what I
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found. I really appreciate you sharing
that and the reason why you look for
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strategics. I remember when we first
spoke there was another fund that was much
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more ECOMMERCE oriented. Right. Yes, there were also looking to make an
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investment in you. was part of
the rationale to partner with, you know,
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sunrise, a strategic partners or a
fund that obviously had a ton of
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retail experience? Is because there's only
so far you can go online at that
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point and that really if you want
to be a massive brand and create the
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most impact, you have to go
through retail or kind of well, that's
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a little bit more about your decisionmaking
process. Yeah, so it was really
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tough. I was very excited about
this other team. Not Sure I can
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say who they are, but I'll
just tell you they were the major investor
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in chewycom and they have a ton
of e comms experience. Yes, and
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I loved the person that I met
there as well, because he told me
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about a story where he turned down, and early, early early, an
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opportunity to invest in facebook and he
turned it down and he said I'll never
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make that mistake again. So and
they had done the deal with chew ECOM
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and that turned out to be an
amazing deal. He offered me more money
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than what sunrise had offered and so
I had to think about it a lot.
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But again I had that Po from
Walmart and I knew I needed to,
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you know, have that partner that
under stood Walmart and understood other retailers
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like whole foods, which we were
all so in, and hive came to
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us at a food show and said
I want you and all of our stores
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because we have educators that educate our
community on diabetes and and various illnesses.
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So I want you in our stores. So now retail is really picking up.
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I'm dependent on my copacker. I'm
now ordering product from Italy to come
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over. I paid like one point
eight million in cash for to Italy to
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to deliver crackers and Pasta. I
went over there and worked and did R
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and D with them. So and
then I'm writing this cookbook that ended up
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being a national best seller. I
needed help. I just was spread so
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thin and I have three kids that
are teenagers. So and my husband's a
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position and he worked ten years to
get to where he was, so he
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didn't want to give up his practice
and join me. So I was really
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spread thin and again, I was
just wood by Steve. So I decided
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not to take the extra money and
take the extra strate strategic that could help
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me with these grocery stores. That's
really great to hear and obviously we were
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connected to Steve, which is which
is great. Yeah, was a fantastic
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pod guys guests and have the opportunity
to him in person when I was at
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Expo West last week, which is
awesome, awesome. Yeah, it was
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super cool, super cool. Obviously
I hope that that one day were able
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to meet in person. I would
love to also talk a little bit about
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distribution within retail because, as you
pointed out earlier, why would walmart want
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Calli flower right in there in their
stores? Right? It's a premium product,
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it's better for you product. It
doesn't sound like a product that Walmart
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would sell and I would love to
kind of know your perspective and of course
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you you walk this through. Why
they were interested, but I love to
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just walk in through your perspective of
is now like the in within these better
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for you kind of healthy alternative products, where the conventional retailers are now,
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you know, selling organic and in
a lot more and maybe you know,
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plant based alternatives and in a lot
and a lot more of these types of
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companies. Do you think that that
now, when it comes to retail,
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that there is this that there's so
much that overlap and it's hard to really
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distinguish what's like a conventional retail store
versus a, you know, specialty or
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natural food store? I think so, but I also think the consumers are
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getting smarter. So the cheaper brands, especially in our category, have a
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lot of fillers, so they're not
as healthy. I mean some of the
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Caulif ower pizza crush you might as
well get in a domino's pizza. It's
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really no different. So I think
for Walmart, the buyer was new,
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she was very young and she was
interested in health and she's like, I
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00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:55.559
think it's time for Walmart to create
a healthier at least a couple doors of
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healthier products, and that's what she
did. She was able to accomplish that
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and then her boss bought into it
and so she was excited about our brand.
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Again. She was a huge fan
of Aarono Korea and we were using
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I think we were one of the
brands. I actually listen to mark Sisson
369
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at a Nash Event and he talked
about how he put like over three hundred
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samples into influencers hands and how he
was really able to utilize influencers before they
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were charging a lot of money.
He was really using them, he was
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using his own customers as influencers.
So I would listen to that talk very
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closely and basically followed his model and
that's how we started using all these influencers
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and then had people like the cast
of Hamilton reach out to us and the
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Walmart buyer. So I really think
it had to do with just having some
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organic content out there and influencers that
were truly passionate about the brand and didn't
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weren't looking for a paycheck, a
heavy paycheck, to promote a brand.
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I love to learn more about your
product, Ta Gie. Obviously, when
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you first started, you started with
just the califlower pizza. This is when
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you were putting all of your own
money into it, right, didn't have
381
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:18.440
any outside investment how did you choose
to launch new skills? So I saw
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some trends happening. I had already
planned on launching crackers and I was the
383
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speaker at Nash and I mentioned that
and then about six, six months later,
384
00:28:29.079 --> 00:28:32.240
crackers arrived, cauliflower crackers. I
won't say the brand, but they
385
00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:37.000
were one of my judges at Nash
and so I made not telling them my
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00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:41.039
product line, and within six months
they had three skews of crackers, cauliflower
387
00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:45.599
crackers. Yeah, and he was
my judge. So it was interesting,
388
00:28:45.640 --> 00:28:49.119
but I certainly couldn't eat as product
with the ingredients that were in it was.
389
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It would have made me very sick
because of the inflammation and the lupus.
390
00:28:53.119 --> 00:28:57.160
So that was my interesting crackers is
getting them out there, getting a
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00:28:57.200 --> 00:29:00.920
cracker out there that I could eat
and I could promote. So everything I've
392
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:04.000
done is something that I can actually
eat. Matter of fact, at the
393
00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:08.160
Las Vegas Peachas show, I was
approached by a CO packer, a pretty
394
00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:12.799
he co packs a lot of cauliflower
products and he said Hey, I can
395
00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:15.720
make your how much are you spending
to get your product made? And at
396
00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:19.640
the time we didn't own our manufacturing
plant we do now, and I'm I
397
00:29:19.640 --> 00:29:22.720
would love to talk about that in
a moment, but at the time I
398
00:29:22.759 --> 00:29:26.960
was using a co packer any and
I told him how much I was paying
399
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:30.039
the Co Packer and and that,
by the way, that's one of my
400
00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:34.640
lessons I've learned. I am such
a like a handshake, tell people everything,
401
00:29:34.759 --> 00:29:38.400
and I got so burned so many
times that I've really learned that you
402
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:42.680
haven't. You have to be discreet
and you have to be do your due
403
00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:48.200
diligence before you trust certain people and
don't tell people what you're planning to do
404
00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:52.680
until you do it. But anyways, I told him how much we were
405
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:55.799
paying and he's like, I can
make it for half the price, and
406
00:29:55.880 --> 00:30:00.920
you will, you will have such
better margins and and grocery stores are going
407
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:03.519
to really look at that and look
at your margins, and so I was
408
00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:07.319
like, okay, I'm really interested. So I came over to his booth,
409
00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:11.079
which is huge booth, and I
tried his products and I was like,
410
00:30:11.079 --> 00:30:12.799
okay, tell me the ingredients in
here, because he was making his
411
00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:17.519
own cauliflower pizza crush. Just kind
of play around with it and I realize
412
00:30:17.559 --> 00:30:19.519
if I another bite of it I
was going to be sick that night and
413
00:30:19.599 --> 00:30:22.599
I told him, I said we
use fresh cauliflower and I don't want to
414
00:30:22.599 --> 00:30:26.200
deviate from that because I don't want
to have to add fillers. And he's
415
00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:29.680
like, I don't touch fresh vegetables. I just I don't do it.
416
00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:33.359
I do powder or I'll do pure
a, but I'll never touch a fresh
417
00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:37.759
vegetable. And I knew using powder
or pure a cauliflower you had to add
418
00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:41.440
fillers, and so I'm like now
I can't do it because I'll be lying
419
00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:47.200
to my consumer. And I really
believe if brands can just stay true to
420
00:30:47.240 --> 00:30:52.000
a mission or a cause and be
authentic, it may take longer to be
421
00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:57.599
successful because maybe it is a higher
priced item because you're using such clean ingredients,
422
00:30:57.599 --> 00:31:00.119
but it's worth it in the end. Like it's worth it. We
423
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:04.559
will be one of the last cauliflower
products and and I guarantee it, people
424
00:31:04.759 --> 00:31:11.400
be educated enough to read the labels. Well, what do you think about?
425
00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:15.039
You know, because now there's so
many, and not just in Califower
426
00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:18.400
alternatives, but just better for you
products out there. I mean, you
427
00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:22.400
know, I was at Expo last
week and I feel like plant basis has
428
00:31:22.440 --> 00:31:26.519
become such like a buzzy word that
it almost sounds like it's, you know,
429
00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:29.559
it's if it's play a base.
Oh it's better for you, but
430
00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:32.160
then it's a wait, hold on, a lot, maybe, maybe a
431
00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:34.559
lot of this is actually very processed
and not so good for you and your
432
00:31:34.599 --> 00:31:37.759
general sense. I mean, as
you've seen, because you were there from
433
00:31:37.799 --> 00:31:41.200
a few years ago when you started. I feel like that was when it
434
00:31:41.240 --> 00:31:44.440
was first kind of a becoming in
and I know that you were obviously one
435
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:48.359
of the first call of our pizza
companies. How do you think about like
436
00:31:48.519 --> 00:31:52.720
this whole trend of, you know, plant Bas are better for you and
437
00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:57.160
if products are actually, you know, better for you or not? Yeah,
438
00:31:57.240 --> 00:32:00.720
I just think it's so important for
the consumer to be educated. I
439
00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:07.200
think really good marketing brands can really
sway the customer to pick up their product
440
00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:10.400
without reading the ingredients, and I
think that is key. When we did
441
00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:16.519
a sidebyside comparison of the most popular
cauliflower brands compared to ours, people were
442
00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:22.400
shocked, buyers were shocked, consumers
were shocked and of course I ran it
443
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:25.279
through the attorneys before we did it
to make sure that we would get in
444
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:30.440
trouble for showing that and people were
shocked. I mean it was amazing.
445
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:37.519
I'll say there's one very influential person. Her name is huge. She was
446
00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:40.319
a big weight watchers advocate. She
has a cauliflower pizza cress out there and
447
00:32:40.359 --> 00:32:45.680
it's worse than dominoes like it been. Ingredients are just you might as well
448
00:32:45.720 --> 00:32:49.400
eat dominos. You might as only
eat dominoes, and it's disappointing to see
449
00:32:49.400 --> 00:32:53.559
that. So I just I've learned
to read labels. I try to educate
450
00:32:53.559 --> 00:32:58.640
our consumers to make sure they read
level labels, because not everything is what
451
00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:01.680
it looks like on the front of
the package. I think it's really important.
452
00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:06.200
And you know, one of the
things when we were doing those survey
453
00:33:06.279 --> 00:33:10.160
monkeys at the time we had the
red pepper crest and the original Italian press
454
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:15.480
and we kept getting request for a
true plant based crest, no cheese,
455
00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:21.160
no dairy, just a true plant
based so that's when we created three skews
456
00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:24.240
of plant based cress for those consumers, and that was back in two thousand
457
00:33:24.279 --> 00:33:30.160
and seventeen. So we were seeing
the trend then for plant based and we
458
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:34.079
listen to our consumers and we put
out those products. One of the people
459
00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:37.680
that was very he's retired now,
but he was in the food business for
460
00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:42.480
many, many years. He met
with a lot of buyers and I always
461
00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:45.920
remember him saying to me buyers aren't
on the Internet, they're not on social
462
00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:51.599
media, they're not watching what's happening, and the Walmart buyer is a great
463
00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:55.000
example of yes, buyers are getting
younger and younger at main grocery stores.
464
00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:59.000
I don't know if you've noticed that, but and a lot of them are
465
00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:04.519
health conscious and they are looking online
to see what's new, what's trending,
466
00:34:04.519 --> 00:34:07.400
what are people liking, and so
I disagree with that person with all those
467
00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:15.400
years of experience, that buyers are
online, especially the newer buyers, and
468
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:20.000
that it's very important to have a
presence online, whether you're have an e
469
00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:23.280
comm store or not, you need
to be online educating your consumer about your
470
00:34:23.320 --> 00:34:28.880
product and really promoting your product.
Definitely, and I think that is,
471
00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:31.599
you know, be be like a
major change, that that buyers are now,
472
00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:37.400
you know, a lot more mindful
being online and kind of understanding to
473
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:40.360
because, I mean also what we
talked about as well on the show is
474
00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:45.880
how, you know, Walmart and
target had become very aggressive in terms of
475
00:34:45.880 --> 00:34:50.800
bringing in, you know, brands, digionator brands, into their into their
476
00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:54.880
retail shops, and so definitely,
if, since that's the case, buyers
477
00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:59.920
certainly are becoming way more active in
terms of online and kind of understanding like
478
00:34:59.960 --> 00:35:04.480
what what's out there. It's not
just the trade shows. Mike Anderson came
479
00:35:04.519 --> 00:35:08.679
on as CEO and you decided to
step down. What was that transition like,
480
00:35:09.159 --> 00:35:14.199
since you were the one that built
up califlower and and you know the
481
00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:19.159
brand and obviously it's a millions of
millions in year and revenue. What was
482
00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:22.599
that kind of transition like? Well, I love Mike Anderson, by the
483
00:35:22.599 --> 00:35:28.400
way. He's a very creative person
and he made stuff happen, like he
484
00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:34.000
brought the enchiladas and the lasagna into
the business, into grocery, and that
485
00:35:34.119 --> 00:35:37.760
is one of our top selling skews
now and that was something we were doing
486
00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:40.639
at our little restaurant that we had
in Chico, California, and he picked
487
00:35:40.679 --> 00:35:45.039
up on that right away and he
was all about innovation, and that is
488
00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:52.320
my like. I love innovating new
products and creating new skews. So he
489
00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:55.920
and I had that in common and
I was really drawn to his creative process
490
00:35:55.960 --> 00:36:01.320
and we had interviewed a lot of
CEOS, at potential CEOS, and that
491
00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:07.079
was Steve Hughes's top choice and Mike
was my number two choice. All ad
492
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:12.119
meant that ze knows that it wasn't
my top choice, but he was my
493
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:15.199
number two choices and my top choice
wasn't available because he was in the middle
494
00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:21.039
of selling a brand. So he
wasn't available for months and I knew because
495
00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:23.440
of what my family was going through. We had to move out of northern
496
00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:30.360
California because of the fires and then
I had three teenagers that they started calling
497
00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:35.559
their dad, Dr Mom. They
were missing me. I was gone all
498
00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:39.360
the time, and so it was
harder than I thought it would be.
499
00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:44.920
I gotta admit I should have I
was in the brand. Once I let
500
00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:49.679
that position go, I needed to
trust the process and I realized that I
501
00:36:49.719 --> 00:36:54.199
had control issues letting go of letting
somebody else make all the decisions. It
502
00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:59.760
was really difficult, and I hear
a lot of entrepreneurs say that when they
503
00:36:59.800 --> 00:37:04.280
start, because it's it was like
my fourth child and that's how I considered
504
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:07.280
it and decisions that were being made
that maybe I didn't agree with it felt
505
00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:12.880
like your child dating the wrong person. You know, it just felt like
506
00:37:12.920 --> 00:37:15.280
that and it doesn't mean that they
were wrong and I was right. It
507
00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:20.400
just meant I was giving up control. And it's kind of like when your
508
00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:23.119
kids turn a certain age and you've
got to let go or they're never going
509
00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:27.280
to grow. And that's kind of
how I thought of it and and I
510
00:37:27.320 --> 00:37:29.719
had a hard time, as much
as I loved Mike, I had a
511
00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:34.199
very, very hard time letting go. So was it? Was it the
512
00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:37.519
board's decision to have you seppt out, or was that or was that your
513
00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:42.039
own decision? That was my own
decision. I really felt like I needed
514
00:37:42.079 --> 00:37:45.480
to get people in there that had
experience. Now, Mike had never been
515
00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:51.519
a CEO before, so that was
one thing that maybe I should have looked
516
00:37:51.519 --> 00:37:54.400
at. Is I had some advisors
telling me you need to hire somebody it's
517
00:37:54.440 --> 00:38:00.639
been a CEO before. Mike was
Fabulous and I just was very drawn to
518
00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:07.400
him from his innovation and his ability
to get things done very fast. Like
519
00:38:07.480 --> 00:38:10.880
the entrees. He moved at a
very fast pace and that's how we were
520
00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:15.440
moving before we brought in the strategic
partners. And of course I was listening
521
00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:21.280
to everything that Steve Hughes wanted and
that was his number one choice, and
522
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:25.920
he put in his nephew as our
CMO and then he also brought in his
523
00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:30.760
daughterinlaw to help build the brands.
So some of the changes that they made
524
00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:35.719
right away that I agreed with was
changing the packaging, because we did that
525
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:37.880
in house. We just kind of
played around and did that in house.
526
00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:42.840
Nobody designed that for us but us
and you could tell when you look at
527
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:46.079
it side by side, it's an
amateur versus a professional. And then they
528
00:38:46.119 --> 00:38:50.440
also updated the website, which I
was begging them to do. We needed
529
00:38:50.599 --> 00:38:53.320
an updated website. And there were
a few other things I really wanted to
530
00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:57.719
do that I still want to do, like I would love a Callie club
531
00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:01.159
or some kind of a club.
We started a membership, but I'd love
532
00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:06.760
to build that membership back up and
really focus on email strategy is again as
533
00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:10.960
well. But yeah, we we
had a really strong team to start off
534
00:39:12.039 --> 00:39:15.840
with and we continue to have a
very strong team with a lot of experience
535
00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:21.320
and our current CEO is doing a
fabulous job and now we have a new
536
00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:25.320
CMO and he's also doing a fabulous
job and they come from boulder brands,
537
00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:31.000
so Steve knows them very well.
And then we've got a fairly new CFO,
538
00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:35.760
but he's been in the food business
his whole life. He's fairly young,
539
00:39:35.800 --> 00:39:38.400
I should say, not new,
and he's doing a phenomenal job as
540
00:39:38.440 --> 00:39:43.599
well. So what is one book
that is inspired you personally and one book
541
00:39:43.639 --> 00:39:47.519
thatspired you professionally? Personally, whenever
anybody asked me this, I always go
542
00:39:47.639 --> 00:39:52.599
back to the for agreements, because
if you can live by the for agreements,
543
00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:58.320
then you're you're doing things right and
people are going to recognize that you're
544
00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:02.199
going to have healthier relationships. I
haven't always lived by the for agreements and
545
00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:07.320
every time I sway from them,
something happens, you know, personally,
546
00:40:07.400 --> 00:40:13.519
with a relationship that isn't always the
best, and then professionally, one of
547
00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:16.559
the books that's really helped me is
the one thing, and it's really about
548
00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:21.840
focusing on one thing. And in
two thousand and eighteen, when I was
549
00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:29.199
launching pasta crackers, we were the
number oneskew on Amazon for our original Italian
550
00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:34.760
and I was hearing a cookbook often
my team was like all over the place
551
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:37.440
trying to help me and I was
all over the place and I think the
552
00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:42.119
biggest mistake I've ever made, or
one of them, happened during that time
553
00:40:42.119 --> 00:40:45.079
because I wasn't focused on the one
thing, like just focusing on those main
554
00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:51.440
skews that were really helping drive the
business the people recognized, and not trying
555
00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:53.719
to do all these other things myself. And so that book, my husband
556
00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:57.760
made me read it. I've read
it multiple times and whenever I start I
557
00:40:57.800 --> 00:41:00.760
call it squirreling and I'm all over
the place because I want to do everything
558
00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:05.079
and do it right, but ultimately
you don't do it right when you're trying
559
00:41:05.119 --> 00:41:07.440
to do too much. So I
love that book. I highly recommend it.
560
00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:13.119
Another book I want to mention really
quick also is story brand by Donald
561
00:41:13.159 --> 00:41:16.840
Miller. That really helped us in
the marketing part of our business, and
562
00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:23.400
boundaries by Henry Cloud, because I
had to set some serious boundaries with people
563
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:30.039
to not get burned, and those
handshakes often can burn you. And so
564
00:41:30.760 --> 00:41:37.480
really those books have helped me tremendously
personally and professionally. That's great. Huge
565
00:41:37.480 --> 00:41:40.400
Fan of the one thing. I
complete agree with you and sent him as
566
00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:44.400
towards that one. I still haven't
checked out for a brands. Why I
567
00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:47.559
need to? I definitely need to, and the four agreements is also great.
568
00:41:47.719 --> 00:41:52.000
Yeah, I don't think we've actually
had anyone that to bring up story
569
00:41:52.039 --> 00:41:54.239
brand on the show, so we'll
definitely I that sort to our news letter.
570
00:41:54.280 --> 00:41:59.159
My point of question is, what's
maybe the best piece of advice that
571
00:41:59.199 --> 00:42:04.079
you have for are for entrepreneurs who
are currently building, so for entrepreneurs in
572
00:42:04.119 --> 00:42:07.360
general. I talked about the five
P's and I'll just go through the very,
573
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:12.199
very quickly. Make sure your product
is something you're passionate about. You
574
00:42:12.199 --> 00:42:14.880
got to have passion. Don't look
at what's going to make you a dollar,
575
00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:19.199
look at what you're truly passionate about. So typically that's something that's helped
576
00:42:19.239 --> 00:42:22.599
you personally or somebody that you love. So Passion is very important people,
577
00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:27.480
I've already said this multiple time.
Surround yourself with people who have done that,
578
00:42:27.559 --> 00:42:31.400
been there before, like Patrick Leant
Leonelcy. I was chopped up his
579
00:42:31.480 --> 00:42:37.840
last name. He always says higher, hungry, humble and emotionally intelligent people,
580
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:42.519
and that's what I think my team
was and the team that we currently
581
00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:46.599
have. They're very passionate about the
brand. They're hungry to create a successful
582
00:42:46.679 --> 00:42:51.400
brand and they all have emotional intelligence, so I think that's really important.
583
00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:54.360
Perseverance, it would be one of
the biggest ones, because you're going to
584
00:42:54.440 --> 00:42:58.480
have a ton of highs and a
ton of lows and not a lot in
585
00:42:58.519 --> 00:43:02.320
between. So you've got to be
willing to on those really low days,
586
00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:07.079
the days where you trusted somebody that
burned you or you made a mistake and
587
00:43:07.159 --> 00:43:08.880
it's cost you a lot of money, you got to be able to persevere
588
00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:14.559
through that and figure out what's going
to allow you to keep going, to
589
00:43:14.599 --> 00:43:17.039
get up every day when you just
want to pull the covers over your head
590
00:43:17.079 --> 00:43:21.719
and persevere through the lowness to get
to the Highness, because you're always going
591
00:43:21.719 --> 00:43:24.199
to get a high eventually if you
just keep working at it, and the
592
00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:29.159
people that work harder are the people
that are going to be harder than the
593
00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:31.880
competitors are the people that are going
to be successful. I think Kobe Bryant
594
00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:37.039
said that, but and then paying
it forward. I really believe in this.
595
00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:42.800
I we used to have this website
called Callie cares and we worked a
596
00:43:42.840 --> 00:43:47.000
lot with lupas foundation. We worked
a little bit with American Diabetes Association and
597
00:43:47.039 --> 00:43:52.400
then some smaller foundations like step it
up, which mentors girls, and I
598
00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:55.400
just believe if you pay it forward, it's kind of like that Tom's shoes
599
00:43:55.679 --> 00:44:00.760
by when we donate one free.
I think people want to buy from people
600
00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:07.760
that are that are that have a
cause that they represent or that are just
601
00:44:07.840 --> 00:44:12.480
passionate about something that's helping somebody else, and so paying it forward, I
602
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:15.440
think it always comes back to you
tenfold, and I believe people buy from
603
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:21.519
people, not always buy the product, but buy from people that they believe
604
00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:27.639
in and people that represent a cause
that they align themselves with. So I
605
00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:30.360
think that's really important as well.
And then, of course, product is
606
00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:35.159
the last thing. You've got to
have a product that you are authentic,
607
00:44:35.159 --> 00:44:39.840
authentic brand and you can look yourself
in the mirror and you know that what
608
00:44:39.880 --> 00:44:45.159
you're putting out there is exactly what
you're saying you're putting out there. So
609
00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:47.679
that's what I would say to entrepreneurs. If you can really surround yourself with
610
00:44:47.679 --> 00:44:52.280
people that have done it better than
you, be humble enough to admit that
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you don't know everything and all of
the other peas I said, I talked
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about that a lot on podcasts.
I think that really is why we have
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been so successful. Amy, this
has been absolute pleasure. Thank you so
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00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:07.800
much for US spending time with me
and for coming on the show. Thank
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00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:12.400
you. It's been an honor.
I love your podcast. I highly I
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00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:15.119
will be recommending it, like I
do story brand, but I really have
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enjoyed listening to your podcast. It's
so kind. That's so kind. And
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there you have it. It was
terrific chatting with amy. I highly recommend
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checking out hey amy leacycom to learn
more about her story and her approach to
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00:45:29.320 --> 00:45:31.679
brand building. If you enjoyed this
episode, I love it if you'd write
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00:45:31.679 --> 00:45:36.199
a review on the apple podcast.
You're also welcome to follow me your host,
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00:45:36.280 --> 00:45:39.039
Mike, on twitter at Mike Guelb, and also follow for episode announcements
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00:45:39.079 --> 00:46:00.719
at Consumer VC. Thanks for listening, everyone,
