March 1, 2022

Greer Tessler and Cara Kaufman (Simple Food Ventures) - Why they only invest in CPG products that work on-shelf, the difference between better for the planet and better for you, and analyzing product differentiation

Greer Tessler and Cara Kaufman (Simple Food Ventures) - Why they only invest in CPG products that work on-shelf, the difference between better for the planet and better for you, and analyzing product differentiation

Our guests today are Greer Terrler and Cara Kaufman, founders of Simple Food Ventures. Simple Food Ventures is an early stage venture firm that invests in the future of healthy foods and products. We discuss how they both began investing in better for you products, do they only invest in better for the planet or better for you, and what makes a product work on shelf.

Here are some of the questions I ask them:

  1. What was your attraction to the food and beverage industry?
    1. Why did you and how did you both transition into venture capital?
    2. What stage is a company usually have to be at in order for you to be initially interested?
    3. Founder and the roadmap
    4. How did Simple Food Ventures come together?
    5. What do you see as the opportunity within food and beverage?
    6. Does a product need to be able to get on shelf / in retail for you to peak your interest?
    7. Does a product need to be differentiated in order for you both to get excited?
    8. Walk me through how you conduct due diligence.
    9. How do you source and meet founders?
    10. What’s one part of the better-for-you movement that you think is a contrarian take / not as obvious?
    11. What’s one thing you would change about venture capital?
    12. What’s one book that inspired each of you personally and a book that inspired each of you professionally?
    13. What’s one piece of advice that you have for founders?
Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:16.920 Hello and welcome to the consumer VC. I am your host, Michael, 2 00:00:17.120 --> 00:00:21.199 and on this show we talked about the world adventure capital and innovation in both 3 00:00:21.199 --> 00:00:25.960 consumer technology and consumer products. If you're enjoying this content, you could subscribe 4 00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:31.160 to my newsletter, the consumer VC DOT substackcom, to get each new episode 5 00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:35.479 and more consumer news delivered straight to your inbox. Our guests today are Greert 6 00:00:35.520 --> 00:00:40.280 Hessler and Cara coffin, founders of simple food ventures. Simple food ventures is 7 00:00:40.320 --> 00:00:44.320 an early stage venture capital firm that invests in the future of healthy foods and 8 00:00:44.399 --> 00:00:48.719 products. So we're talking about the wonderful world of CPG. On this episode 9 00:00:48.759 --> 00:00:53.600 we discuss why they wanted to invest in better for you, distinguishing was better 10 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:58.880 for the planet versus better for you, and their unique investment strategy and what 11 00:00:59.039 --> 00:01:11.359 makes a product work on shelf in retail without further ado. Here they are, 12 00:01:46.840 --> 00:01:51.480 greer and Kara. Thank you so much both of you for joining me 13 00:01:51.519 --> 00:01:53.480 today. How are you? We're good. Yeah, excited to be on 14 00:01:53.519 --> 00:01:57.599 her to be doing that rereasing in New York right now, but otherwise noe 15 00:01:57.599 --> 00:02:04.719 place. So, both of you, what was your initial attraction to the 16 00:02:04.760 --> 00:02:07.039 whole food and beverage industry. Why did you both want to enter it and 17 00:02:07.080 --> 00:02:12.680 what was your entry point? Absolutely so, I started it from a consumer 18 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:16.960 perspective. I am started having food allergies at around seventeen eighteen. I used 19 00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:21.719 to bring my own pasta two restaurants, which would definitely be illegal now. 20 00:02:21.719 --> 00:02:25.159 They used to boil water for me and the whole bit. There's one type 21 00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:29.759 of bread and whole foods that I remember. There really wasn't anything. So 22 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:32.639 I came at it from needing to shift how I was eating. I had 23 00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:37.199 a gluten allergy and dairy and tolerances. At one point I was on a 24 00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:39.120 little fog mop diet. I mean, you name it, I've tried it. 25 00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:44.479 And so, with all of these changing dietary needs and restrictions, came 26 00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:49.560 my self education, understanding how to read the labels on packages, understanding that 27 00:02:49.879 --> 00:02:53.520 just because something was deemed gluten free or better for you didn't necessarily mean that 28 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:58.639 it was, and to really diving deeper into what that was, familiarizing myself 29 00:02:58.639 --> 00:03:02.080 with the brands and understanding how I wanted to eat, which has shaped my 30 00:03:02.120 --> 00:03:07.759 eating and really my interest and all that for the last fifteen, twenty years. 31 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:09.960 Yeah, and I mean both of us have lived a better fore lifestyle. 32 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:15.400 You know, I didn't have severe as severe food allergies this care but 33 00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:21.319 I've always kind of tried to stay into the more preservative free space and really 34 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:27.360 came into this after I had worked closely in grocery more from a consultative perspective 35 00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:32.479 for the last eleven years of my career and I was leaving my job wanted 36 00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:38.960 to pursue some investing. I started working for a fund as a venture partner 37 00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:44.319 for about six months and they were doing it was like a part fun, 38 00:03:44.479 --> 00:03:49.800 part brand accelerator, working with DPG products. saw got more exposure into that 39 00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:53.159 space and realize that I could actually go off and do it on my own 40 00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:59.159 and in doing so it's trying to think of the perfect partner and Kara was 41 00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:02.919 that perfect partner. So we've been doing this and brought in my relationships with 42 00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:08.639 grocery as a big value added differentiator for our fund. I think also what 43 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:13.000 we were seeing too, is that the access to the better free space our 44 00:04:13.080 --> 00:04:17.040 fund artitional and still our mission is to just create more access to healthy foods 45 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:23.199 and products, and we're doing that by driving scale. So making sure that 46 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:28.160 creating scale, bringing price points down and having those products be available at every 47 00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:32.040 neighborhood grocery store versus, you know, being targeted more towards a whole foods 48 00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:35.560 or an Airwan type shopper, and to just expand on that a little bit. 49 00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:41.480 I mean I personally seen these aisles go from one half a section in 50 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:45.920 a freezer to aisles and aisles of these better for your products sitting side by 51 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:49.000 side the Jiffies and, you know the Areos of the world with competing better 52 00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:53.800 for your brands and for us that's really exciting. But the mission is is 53 00:04:53.839 --> 00:04:57.000 that we have to it has to be accessible across the board, both in 54 00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:00.120 terms of price and where you can find those products, and that's what we're 55 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:03.839 doing. Got It. So part of the opportunity you see is a shift 56 00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:11.639 from better for you organic products not only in you know kind of specialty retailers 57 00:05:11.720 --> 00:05:15.439 or high end retailers, but also seen this really come down the chain into 58 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:20.879 like the actual conventional grocery. Well, what's happened with Covid is consumer behavior 59 00:05:20.959 --> 00:05:26.560 shifted where everybody knows you don't want have to go to multiple stores to risk 60 00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:30.399 getting covid from multiple different places. So creaving that one stop shop experience and 61 00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:34.199 having health be a big, you know, central priority for a lot of 62 00:05:34.199 --> 00:05:40.639 people grocers or realizing that they can't just if there can't just be the whole 63 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:44.519 foods and then you get your conventional items at a target or in Alberts and 64 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:47.240 safe way. Grocers like, you know, Kroger and Alberts and safe way, 65 00:05:47.319 --> 00:05:51.160 need to be able to integrate natural, organic and conventional onto their shelves 66 00:05:51.199 --> 00:05:56.279 and so consumers are able to go to one store to get everything they're looking 67 00:05:56.319 --> 00:06:00.519 for and retailers are now able to actually meet all of their consumer needs and 68 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:03.439 demands, versus before where it was like you have to go to multiple different 69 00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:08.439 places. And then the last part it too, is that with this new 70 00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:11.639 shopper, who is going to be the Gen Z shopper, they care about 71 00:06:11.639 --> 00:06:14.160 what's in the product. They also care about what that products is doing to 72 00:06:14.199 --> 00:06:16.560 the environment, and so the way that we invest is looking for products that 73 00:06:16.600 --> 00:06:21.319 have sustainability as a huge aspect, either the ingredient or packaging, but also 74 00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:26.079 that it's clean and it's good for the body, it's functional in some aspects. 75 00:06:26.439 --> 00:06:29.680 So, with this being said, this kind of going down a rabbit 76 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:32.560 hole pretty early. But what is when you think about the future of the 77 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:39.680 grocery store right and it going from maybe not as specialized as you say in 78 00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:43.639 his specific bucket and now maybe more broad Ivan, how are you thinking about 79 00:06:43.720 --> 00:06:46.040 as investors? I mean, obviously we're going to cover like the brand side 80 00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:48.879 too, of course that's what your paid attention to, but we think about 81 00:06:48.879 --> 00:06:53.040 distribution the grocery store, what do you think about that? The grocery store 82 00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:55.639 is going to look like in the next like ten years? I mean we're 83 00:06:55.639 --> 00:06:59.279 already seeing a massive shift, if you think about it, like the fact 84 00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:04.199 that Oreos and corona and Guinness are like coming out with these gluten free items. 85 00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:10.480 These mass reading, these mass market companies are shifting towards this better for 86 00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:13.959 you space. And so if the big guys are doing it, sometimes they're 87 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:16.439 able to invest in the R D to do it. It's a lot easier 88 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:19.839 to just acquire the brands that have already done it successfully. So there's going 89 00:07:19.879 --> 00:07:24.920 to be a lot more integrations, but we're seeing acquisition, a lot more 90 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:30.240 platforms at play instead of just the big guys taking taking stand here. And 91 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:34.800 also actually what's been interesting in our conversations with grocers in this space is that, 92 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:41.000 even though you'll see a shelf consumed mostly by the larger players, you 93 00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:44.560 know, the coakes, the pepsis and Mondolesas of the world. Maybe seventy 94 00:07:44.560 --> 00:07:46.560 five percent of the shelf controlled by that. The fifteen percent is made up 95 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:51.879 by maybe thirty other brands. So these smaller players are really popping up and 96 00:07:51.959 --> 00:07:57.560 trying to grow a presence there. It's difficult because shelving pies are really, 97 00:07:57.560 --> 00:08:01.639 really expensive and the grocery beast can be pretty intimidating, which is typically why 98 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:07.160 these healthy brands wait a little while before they actually go down that path. 99 00:08:07.160 --> 00:08:11.040 But for brands to really survive they need the right connections and they need a 100 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:16.240 true differentiator, and that's really like what we look for. But the other 101 00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:18.920 thing you'll see on the shelves now to is, in addition to being gluten 102 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:24.199 free, organic or Calori like, low calorie, whatever it is, you're 103 00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:28.680 also going to have the carbon footprint of the brands local labeled on the boxes, 104 00:08:28.839 --> 00:08:33.480 because grocers are looking at those brands as as an important aspect to what 105 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:37.440 they're offering their customers. The labels are just the table stakes at this point. 106 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:41.559 It's now what else can you do to further differentiate? That's really fascinating. 107 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:43.480 I also wanted just to back up a little bit as well and just 108 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:48.879 talk about a little bit how simple food ventures came to get together. I 109 00:08:48.919 --> 00:08:50.799 know, greer, when you were thinking about her in to fund, you 110 00:08:50.840 --> 00:08:58.279 mentioned earlier how Kara was the perfect partner in order to start a fund with, 111 00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:01.320 and it would love to kind of under stand you know how you to. 112 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:05.279 You first of all know each other, how you both came together and 113 00:09:05.559 --> 00:09:09.759 why you also wanted to do start of fun with a partner, as opposed 114 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:13.600 to starting needs your own funds. Our friendship goes back almost twenty years. 115 00:09:13.639 --> 00:09:16.440 We met in high school, and probably shouldn't be saying this, but we 116 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:20.080 were in a slower math class, which is interesting because that's now what we 117 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:24.320 do all day long, and really bonded over that. But we actually did 118 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:28.000 a fundraiser when we were in high school for a camp and made the cater 119 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:31.039 to kids e terminal illness and their families. They had both been affected by 120 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:35.120 disease in different ways, and so it was our first attempt, and successful 121 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:39.080 attempt, at really making a difference in the world. So we did that 122 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:41.879 for three consecutive years we raise money for the scholarship fund. We were actually 123 00:09:41.879 --> 00:09:46.799 able to send sixty families to this camp for free of charge, which was 124 00:09:46.840 --> 00:09:50.440 amazing. And so not only were we working on this friendship but at an 125 00:09:50.440 --> 00:09:56.440 early age, realize that there was a business side to our dynamic. And 126 00:09:56.639 --> 00:10:00.600 you know how we're take it from there. That's all completely accurate. I 127 00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:05.600 think the reason why simple vit food ventures came to be is actually the name 128 00:10:05.639 --> 00:10:09.759 was derived from Alice waters talking about simple food and it's just really like the 129 00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:16.159 natural, no additive, simple ingredients part of food that we love. And 130 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:20.960 when I was starting this, there was two million dollars that I had the 131 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:24.600 opportunity to invest and I knew that I couldn't do it alone, because I'm 132 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:28.840 a people person and I'm the type of person that needs to talk something through 133 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:31.960 versus right it out in order or to really hammer out ideas and think through 134 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:35.799 my thoughts, and having a partner to go about doing that with is exactly 135 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:41.279 what I need to do to succeed. So bringing Kara and somebody who really 136 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:46.720 understands the space experiences exactly the issues that a lot of our companies are trying 137 00:10:46.759 --> 00:10:50.879 to overcome. I knew that it would be the right fit for us. 138 00:10:50.919 --> 00:10:54.159 And it's interesting. We're and I come at thanks. We usually land on 139 00:10:54.279 --> 00:10:58.600 pretty similar and good cop and she's bad. That is what happens. But 140 00:10:58.759 --> 00:11:01.759 we, you know, we play to each other's strengths. I mean greer 141 00:11:01.960 --> 00:11:05.639 really is. She meets a founder and she falls head over heels and I'm 142 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:09.759 like picking out like well, what about this and this and this and this 143 00:11:09.759 --> 00:11:13.159 this, and she's like, let's overlook this, and so really being able 144 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:16.840 to tap into the other ones, both successes and shortcomings, I think is 145 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:22.159 what makes us successful together, we really do balance each other out and are 146 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:24.480 able to see a holistic picture when we bring everything together. Tsk Me a 147 00:11:24.519 --> 00:11:31.840 little about like your due diligence process and how you examine, evaluate founders and 148 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:37.159 and overall, like make investment decisions. Our process is pretty similar to a 149 00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:41.440 lot of other funds, but what makes us special is that we actually pressure 150 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:45.440 test our investments before we make them. So the way it works is that 151 00:11:45.559 --> 00:11:48.960 we get introduced to a company either through other founders, maybe we see them 152 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:52.840 out in the marketing are interested, or through other investors. We have an 153 00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:56.320 initial conversation. We love to hear a brand stories. I think that that's 154 00:11:56.320 --> 00:12:01.240 really what makes a brand special, is how they gave to be and why. 155 00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:03.440 And after that conversation, if we're interested, we move forward. We 156 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:07.840 tried samples and then we dive into our financial diligence. After that, which 157 00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:13.200 is typically around three weeks, we actually make an introduction to a retail partner 158 00:12:13.279 --> 00:12:16.919 that we have that I've worked closely with for most of my career, and 159 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:22.200 we introduce them to the national category director for whichever the category is. See 160 00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:28.000 how that meeting goes. Talked set up the introduction, understand from the category 161 00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:31.240 director's perspective if they seek potential grocery life for the company and then, if 162 00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:37.759 they do, we move forward with an investment and also starting to facilitate a 163 00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:41.120 pilot launch in one of the divisions or nationally, depending on the opportunity. 164 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:45.960 And then, in addition to that, we actually build in and sent of 165 00:12:46.039 --> 00:12:50.360 equity into all of our deals. So we write a check within an addition 166 00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:54.000 to the check, we get an additional percentage of equity for opening up certain 167 00:12:54.080 --> 00:13:01.279 number of doors for our companies and helping to advise them in their growth strategy 168 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:05.480 along the way through grocery. So we have relationships with a bunch of strategic 169 00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:09.360 retailers and we really bring that to the table. And the brand looks at 170 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:11.919 it from a perspective of even before we invest, we make this huge introduction 171 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:16.720 that is very hard for them to get in the first place, and the 172 00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:18.960 retailers look at it is we're giving them the opportunity to be first to market 173 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:22.399 with these brands, and we look at it as we're actually getting like a 174 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:26.720 stamp of approval on somebody that's going to distribute before we actually make an investment. 175 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:31.120 Are you mostly looking at companies that are or not already in retail, 176 00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:37.279 that only have a online presence or only sales online? It varies because of, 177 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:39.919 you know, where we invest, which is preciate all the way to 178 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:43.720 series a. We are looking at brands that have everything and nothing in between. 179 00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:46.200 So some of them can start his tea to see. Some of them, 180 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:48.240 it's true, some of them are pre launched, some of them are 181 00:13:48.279 --> 00:13:52.399 day to see, some of them are, you know, in specialty markets 182 00:13:52.399 --> 00:13:54.519 and some of them might be in, you know, the wagments of the 183 00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:58.039 world, but not and they might where they might have national to or East 184 00:13:58.039 --> 00:14:03.600 Coast Distribution at whole foods, but they might not have national distribution with Walmart 185 00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:07.159 or target or and they have goals of getting to those levels. The one 186 00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:11.799 thing that we definitely make sure is has to have a mask. These brands 187 00:14:11.799 --> 00:14:15.320 have to have mass market appeal. We're very careful to like you know, 188 00:14:15.399 --> 00:14:20.799 we've invested in two brands that are work relaunched and prerevenue when we invested in 189 00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:24.159 them. So with the deal structure that we have with them, like getting 190 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:30.600 them into our real spirit retail partner right now doesn't actually make sense because they're 191 00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:33.600 just launching. But when they're ready, where that partner for them to really 192 00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:39.240 help them prime their brand to be successful. Going into those conversations, well 193 00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:41.559 then, how do you then think about pressure testing? Or can you not 194 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:48.039 pressure tests when you actually do have a brand that is pretty launch? What, 195 00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:52.840 then, do you kind of also think about the utilize to make a 196 00:14:52.840 --> 00:14:56.799 decision about whether to invest or not? It really comes down to two things. 197 00:14:56.840 --> 00:15:01.480 When it's that early stage, it's the founder understanding the road map and 198 00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:05.039 then it's about filling I don't want to say white space because there's a lot 199 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:09.360 that's already been fulfilled, but what are they doing that's differentiated. So and 200 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:11.120 what are they seeing? How do they see the brand evolving over time? 201 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:15.399 So if they're able to answer these questions, we like who they are, 202 00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:18.440 we want to work closely with them and we see a need for products like 203 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:22.120 that in the market. That's what that's what sends us in to investing with 204 00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:26.360 them. Ahead on John Sebastiani, who is the founder of Crave Jerky and 205 00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:31.399 El System of a brands, and he was saying how what can be tough 206 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:37.440 is when you have a brand that is a DNVB, is online and then 207 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:41.639 they want to go in a retail that they're not priced a really accordingly to 208 00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:46.799 to retail. When you're dealing with, especially at like pre launch brands right 209 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:52.279 which maybe you don't quite know what the pricing will be, how do you 210 00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:56.080 think about these two things, since, in terms of your initial added value, 211 00:15:56.200 --> 00:16:00.279 it's retail partners. When we're talking about pre launched though, it's not 212 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:03.759 preconcept. So it's a brand that either has the product but they just haven't 213 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:08.519 launched yet, or they have a product and a following but they haven't necessarily 214 00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:15.159 launch yet. We know what retail what margins. Retailers need their brands to 215 00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:18.639 hit, so we can help them work backwards from that. We also know 216 00:16:18.679 --> 00:16:23.240 the price point ranges that are retailer, are retail partner specifically would pick up 217 00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:26.879 a brand or not pick up a brand, and so we can help kind 218 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:33.080 of position them appropriately depending on whatever those parameters are. And so that it's 219 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:37.080 really important to us too that we still pressure test the concept with our retail 220 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:41.960 partners even though the brand is pretty launched, because in the long run our 221 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:45.519 goal is to get that brand into the store. There's a way to get 222 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:48.440 it to lowering the cost, and so that's part of the conversation when we're 223 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:52.080 evaluating these products. Is it about, you know, the packaging that they're 224 00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:56.080 currently in? Is it about the ingredients that they're currently and will those be 225 00:16:56.159 --> 00:17:00.759 swapped out for less expensive ingredients but still maintaining the better for you profile? 226 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:04.200 All of that comes into conversation as we're looking at the mass play and the 227 00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:07.759 the need to lower the price. I think consumers. Certainly there's been a 228 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:11.480 ton of considering education or at better for you foods for a consumer. I 229 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:15.319 think we're well on the way in kind of the better for you too movement. 230 00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:18.279 But where do you think we're at in terms of the better for you 231 00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:19.960 when it comes to the environment, on packaging, in terms of, like 232 00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:26.039 it's education, we are so early in the conversation, too early, I 233 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:29.559 think. I there's so I think there's a long way that we have to 234 00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:32.480 go. Our brands are doing it, our brands, but some of them 235 00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:34.519 are, you know, five years old. So think about it in terms 236 00:17:34.519 --> 00:17:40.160 of so maybe it's not so so so new, but compared to I've been 237 00:17:40.279 --> 00:17:44.119 eating gluten free for almost twenty years, the show we're looking at it almost, 238 00:17:44.279 --> 00:17:47.160 I would say, a fifteen year gap at gast. But you even 239 00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:49.680 think about it, of like packages that get, the amount of packages that 240 00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:53.119 care and I get every single week because of the fact the way to try 241 00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:57.440 all the samples that we invest in. So I've seen that evolved where, 242 00:17:57.480 --> 00:18:00.440 you know, before sometimes it be dire foam in it. Now it's this 243 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:06.000 foam, it's this styrofoam material that is like dissolves in the water and creates 244 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:10.640 like a foam to it and then it's just gone. And like the innovation 245 00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:14.799 that is coming with that. I mean we're really interested in also finding brands 246 00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:18.839 that have that are taking a new take on plastic bags and grocery stores, 247 00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:22.119 or paper bags and grocery stores, or the bags that you're using to put 248 00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:26.680 your grapes in at stores. Like brands that are going to that next level 249 00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:32.039 and that's really where the future is. I mean the future of food in 250 00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:37.759 the aspect of it affecting sustainability is obviously supply chain when it comes the actual 251 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:40.599 ingredients, but also the packaging. No, it makes sense. I mean 252 00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:45.640 I'm always kind of curious and I think it's great that brands have been experimenting 253 00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:48.480 and doing a lot of packaging. I think that once you see a consumer 254 00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:52.599 pull for stainable packaging or new forms of packaging, then then you'll start to 255 00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:56.599 see maybe a much greater shift there, though. That's like, that's really, 256 00:18:56.599 --> 00:19:02.200 really fascinating. We also talk a lot about better for you, right, 257 00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:04.039 and what's actually better for you, and I feel like there's almost like 258 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:07.319 not to camps, but there's better for the planet and better for you. 259 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:15.440 And you know when you had like, for example, alternative proteins like impossible 260 00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:19.039 and beyond meats, who it's better for the planets, it's a plant based 261 00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:22.279 protein. But the jury's kind of still oud, or there's been kind of 262 00:19:22.279 --> 00:19:25.880 reports of it. Is it actually better for you? Right this kind of 263 00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:30.400 questions being raised as investors, since how do you think about better for you? 264 00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:33.920 Doesn't kind of have to check those two boxes, a better for the 265 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:37.759 planet and better for you, or can you get away with one of the 266 00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:41.240 two boxes and then, as a macro may be on like a macro lens 267 00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:44.720 to this kind of a two part question on the macro level as well. 268 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:48.160 Where do you think, like better for you, is is headed? I 269 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:51.599 think that it's for us. It starts with is it better for the body, 270 00:19:51.640 --> 00:19:53.119 which leads to is a better for the environment? If we're not our 271 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:59.079 healthiest selves, putting our best foot forward, then we're not able to do 272 00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:02.279 that for the rest, for everything else. I think that's where it starts. 273 00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:04.279 So that's really what we look at. And those ingredients and we've had 274 00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:10.200 that conversation about a possible and beyond. Were invested in a meatless chicken nugget 275 00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:14.279 company as well, and add that conversation and they're made in a lab and 276 00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:18.119 we love it. So we understand that. I think that better for you 277 00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:22.640 is almost kind of become a buzzword at this point, like there's so what 278 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:26.640 we mean was better for you is that there's no additives, preservatives or chemicals 279 00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:30.079 in the food that were that you're eating. It's all natural and sums. 280 00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:34.160 Maybe it's natural where it's produced in the lab now, but it's not like, 281 00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:37.519 you know, there's no corns or a ben it or we're not looking 282 00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:42.359 right. There's no like Dextros and you know redded number seven or whatever it 283 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:47.519 is. It's a p protein isolate instead of you know, whatever it might 284 00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:51.759 be. But the macro trend that I think we're seeing now is that it's 285 00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:55.680 going to be table stakes. If you look at all these mask and glomer 286 00:20:55.880 --> 00:21:00.119 brands that were producing Freedo, like free to lay and you know, if 287 00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:03.880 you look at just everything drito's, like anything out there, there's now going 288 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:07.160 to be an option that is going to be a plant based totos or like 289 00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:11.759 a gluten free to retos that is also plant based, that has no additives 290 00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:15.200 to it, like it's going to be the basic because of the fact that 291 00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:21.039 it is going to become such a mass market category that people are going to 292 00:21:21.079 --> 00:21:23.480 turn to that, because why wouldn't they? As if it tastes just as 293 00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:26.440 good and it's actually still better for you than, like I think that in 294 00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:30.359 five years from now you're going to see a lot of these, you know, 295 00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:34.920 red dine number nine products kind of start to change, a shift, 296 00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:38.920 to change their ingredients and for you invest. We talked a little bit about 297 00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:45.000 does a company have to be online or only in retail? I guess in 298 00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:47.920 order for a company for you to to look at it has to work at 299 00:21:47.960 --> 00:21:51.319 retail. Is that right? Yes, those were that's where our relationships are. 300 00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:55.920 That start differentiator. And again, most people are going to the grocery 301 00:21:55.960 --> 00:22:00.640 store. If we think about excluding the coasts and we target the rest of 302 00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:03.559 the country, people go to the grocery store, they drive, they walk, 303 00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:07.960 whatever it may be, and so that's that's where we want these products. 304 00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:11.119 We want people to have access to all of these products. Well, 305 00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:15.480 yeah, and we just live and said we're tactile beings, like we need 306 00:22:15.559 --> 00:22:17.920 to be able to touch and feel the fruit that we're going to buy, 307 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:21.480 like it's never going to go away. You know, we're like, we 308 00:22:21.559 --> 00:22:26.720 believe it's very important for our brands to have a DNAC presence as an additional 309 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:30.519 Omni channel approach to how they're selling and they could control the price point and 310 00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:34.160 the margins and all of that, but at the same time you have to 311 00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:37.920 be able to get it, like you have to have be able to have 312 00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:41.720 be available to a retail store for browsing, first for discovery, but also 313 00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:47.640 for the fact that people want to see their food. So it's funny because 314 00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:52.119 I've had on Ornsto Schmidt, who is one of the founders of the craft 315 00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:56.680 tree, and he said target Walmart. They're being very aggressive in terms of 316 00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:00.079 online brands coming into the stories and he wrote a piece so that we kind 317 00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:03.440 of talked through about it, where he said that he thinks that brands are 318 00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:07.160 entering retail way too early. They should stay online a lot later than they 319 00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:11.319 do. Obviously know this is kind of like a macro you know this is 320 00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:17.119 not obviously a catch all, but when you're kind of advising and seeing brands, 321 00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:19.680 when do you think it makes sense to enter retail? If they did 322 00:23:19.720 --> 00:23:25.200 in fact sort start online, they have to be able to answer to the 323 00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:30.400 supply. If they can fulfill supply, we need fulfill the purchase orders and 324 00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:36.440 continue to fulfill the repeat purchase orders and the PALETTES. Then they're able to 325 00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:41.160 enter into mass or enter into grocery and our approach is really it's a region 326 00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:44.759 by region or store by store. It's not a one day you're going to 327 00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:48.839 be in five thousand stores. It's what are you able to do today? 328 00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:52.480 And let's grow with you and let's take on which we're able to accomplish today. 329 00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:55.519 Yeah, and I think it's also looking at where their customer is. 330 00:23:55.960 --> 00:23:57.559 So if they're that's a great thing about you. To See, though, 331 00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:00.680 is like you can see the your summer is where you're selling it. And 332 00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:04.440 so if your customers buying from all over the country, then you're probably ready 333 00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:07.759 to go into retail because you have a pretty big footprint. If your customer 334 00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:12.319 is buying solely on the coast, maybe you could go into retail. But 335 00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:18.160 who should start with smaller boutiques that are really just specific to, you know, 336 00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:21.480 La and New York? Now that makes sense. I mean reminds me 337 00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:23.960 when I when I spoke to I clicking Christopher about how he said that, 338 00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:29.599 you know, when he's analyzing brands, it's he's much prefer smaller territory, 339 00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:33.920 high velocities rather than brands that want to just expand or might be an in 340 00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:37.240 five thousand of stores or a lot, a lot of stores, and but 341 00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:38.839 maybe their velocities just aren't as good. And also, to this point, 342 00:24:38.920 --> 00:24:42.279 he talked about how he had one brand that went in to target and then 343 00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:47.599 totally like a mismanaged target, like a hundred percent. I think, to 344 00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:49.319 your point, Krea, just being able to make sure that you can actually 345 00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:53.599 fulfill all the orders when you actually do have a retailer breathing down your neck. 346 00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:59.440 And so how also do you think about like the fund, like the 347 00:24:59.559 --> 00:25:04.319 overall fun raising landscape for for early better for youth food and beverage brands? 348 00:25:04.359 --> 00:25:07.720 Do you think that there's you know, because we we talked a lot on 349 00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:12.200 this show about especially in like in like technology, for example, where there's 350 00:25:12.279 --> 00:25:17.359 so much money in tech, there's so much some of these rounds are just 351 00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:19.759 crazy, but I'm always kind of curious. And like better for you, 352 00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:25.400 food and bed do you think that there's still is a lack of VC's that 353 00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:27.319 are investing maybe at the stays of your focused on, or do you think 354 00:25:27.319 --> 00:25:32.799 that it actually there's a lot of petition? I think at our stage there's 355 00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:36.279 not a lot of competition. We but we have found it to actually be 356 00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:40.680 very collaborative, which when we've talked with other people they find that to be 357 00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:44.920 startling. What you're not holding for a spot on the cat table and we're 358 00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:48.759 like wow, they want us to join. We're sharing deal flow and it's 359 00:25:48.759 --> 00:25:52.519 allowed us to create this incredible community at network, both from an investor base 360 00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:56.319 as well as a founder base. But there is capital. It's missing, 361 00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:02.160 especially in the early stage, especially for diverse founders, whether their women or 362 00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:06.880 biopic, and it just it. There needs to be more cash in this 363 00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:11.759 space. I mean I think that to there's like a the seed stage brands 364 00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:17.200 are so you'll have like precede or pre revenue, where brand is small, 365 00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:21.319 taking in smaller angel checks and you kind of trying to grow gradually, be 366 00:26:21.400 --> 00:26:23.079 very strategic about it. And then you have these seed stage brands that are 367 00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:26.839 doing, you know, a million plus and revenue and are really trying to 368 00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:32.359 get to that next level, but they don't want institutional capital. They want 369 00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:37.160 more than just angels, and so it's figuring out how much they should raise. 370 00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:41.960 Should they be going crowd like you know crowdfunding through republic or we funder, 371 00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:44.839 or do they just need to be taking in checks? And how to 372 00:26:44.839 --> 00:26:48.440 really approach it, and I think that it's really been a founders market for 373 00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:52.359 the last couple of years. I mean some of the valuations that we've seen 374 00:26:52.400 --> 00:26:56.640 of brands that are doing k and revenue and declaring themselves a ten million dollar 375 00:26:56.720 --> 00:27:00.359 value company, which you'd be surprised there's really one of those. It's really 376 00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:04.960 been a founders market, because these brands drive these valuations based on what they're 377 00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:10.400 seeing in this space of other competitors. But the first two movers can be 378 00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:12.640 the ones that are going to value themselves that highly. Once you're in a 379 00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:18.400 crowded market space, you know it's kind of hard. So I think what's 380 00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:22.839 happening is that these brands are overvaluing themselves and then when they raise their next 381 00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:26.319 round, it needs to be a down round or they just can't really meet 382 00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:30.119 the this standard that they're trying to set. That is actually interesting because, 383 00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:33.319 as you say, and it also doesn't really make sense, because on the 384 00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:38.279 supply and demand side, like supply capital demand brands like it seems like there's 385 00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:42.440 like lack of supply in terms of capital, for in terms of food and 386 00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:48.079 beverage, but these brands can still actually demand pretty high prices for some of 387 00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:52.119 their brands, which doesn't really make a ton of sense. It there's like 388 00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:56.119 lack of supply. Right in the last two years there really hasn't been a 389 00:27:56.200 --> 00:28:00.039 lack of supply. There's been a lot of money people have been wanting to 390 00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:03.759 put to work in in these brands, and there's but now the issue is 391 00:28:03.799 --> 00:28:10.359 that there's just so many brands. Everybody is creating their own small, better 392 00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:14.640 for you brand at this point, and so it's if there's so many brands 393 00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:17.839 and everybody's diversifying which ones they're investing in, none of them really have the 394 00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:22.799 chance to grow appropriately. So I understand you have a fund of two million 395 00:28:22.839 --> 00:28:27.000 currently what is kind of the future of simple food. The goal is to 396 00:28:27.160 --> 00:28:32.759 keep investing to grow with currently built. We've already been able to establish that. 397 00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:36.160 While we started our fund as a precede and seed structured fund, we're 398 00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:40.160 actually looking more to bridge and series a, which has been really exciting for 399 00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:44.559 us. The exposure to other investors, the exposure to other brands and founders 400 00:28:44.559 --> 00:28:47.880 in the later stage. It's it's exciting for us, it's exciting for our 401 00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:51.920 retail partners as well. So to be able to continue to invest in that 402 00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:55.160 capacity in this with this new strategy in mind, is how we see the 403 00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:57.440 things with me. Yeah, and and to I mean right now our kind 404 00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:03.400 of acting as a micro vc angel. We're really entering in, you know, 405 00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:07.319 in a in our next fund raise, to really being a true VC, 406 00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:11.160 writing larger checks in what we were writing before, getting more meaning people, 407 00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:15.839 meaningful pieces of the Pie, but also really be able to help a 408 00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:19.400 lot of brands that you'd assume it're already in grocery get into grocery. What 409 00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:22.839 is one thing that you would change about at your capital? I think the 410 00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:26.920 diversity. Agree with that. You know, I think that if you have 411 00:29:27.519 --> 00:29:33.359 the same type of people, I remember was listening to like a daily interview 412 00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:34.799 or something like this, but I was saying how maybe the same type of 413 00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:40.119 people investing into the same type of people, you're never going to see different 414 00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:44.319 types of products and different perspectives and other groups are not going to really get 415 00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:47.799 the chance to succeed. I mean, even being female fund managers, people 416 00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:51.839 look at us as such a minority in this in this area, and LP's 417 00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:55.519 want to put money towards because it's giving women a chance to really be at 418 00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:57.720 the forefront of business in a lot of ways that wasn't in the past. 419 00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:02.799 So I think as these he continues to evolve. Diversifying is really, really 420 00:30:02.839 --> 00:30:06.519 important. I think we're said a beautifully, and that's a lot of what 421 00:30:06.559 --> 00:30:10.000 we pay attention to, a lot of what we look at and making sure 422 00:30:10.119 --> 00:30:15.680 that we have more female founders that were investing in then male. That's one 423 00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:18.720 of the most important things to us as female fund managers and I think to 424 00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:22.559 like can we take time and time again, but like the actual decisionmakers in 425 00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:27.920 households typically are females, and so it makes sense that we should. I 426 00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:33.119 mean, obviously we should be investing more diverse brainds, but also makes more 427 00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:37.039 sense to to to invest in, obviously a lot more female led businesses as 428 00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:41.480 well in the eyes of consumer, if the extual decision maker is predominantly a 429 00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:45.319 female. What's one book then, inspired each of you personally and each of 430 00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:51.119 you professionally. So personally this is a very hippie answer because I went to 431 00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:55.519 school in Vermont and I'm you know, it's my heart. But so the 432 00:30:55.519 --> 00:30:59.759 celestine prophecy. I'm not. I can't actually remember who wrote it right now. 433 00:30:59.799 --> 00:31:02.920 I should look that up, but for the longest time I thought it 434 00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:07.880 was a true story. It's not, but it's basically about man who goes 435 00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:12.119 to Brazil and find this book that is really talking about how everything that you 436 00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:17.640 meet, everything is connected, so there's no coincidences, is all about synchronicity. 437 00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:21.559 And after reading that it really made me think about every relationship I have 438 00:31:21.640 --> 00:31:25.680 in the reason behind it and just every interaction and what I'm trying to learn 439 00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:27.839 and take from it and every experience. So it really is something that is 440 00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:33.240 kind of just shape the way that I perceived my relationships and just my experiences. 441 00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:37.079 And then, professionally, is failing upward by Ben Chapman. I look 442 00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:44.200 at my career as I really started and consulting intrudic advisory, I went into 443 00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:48.480 an experience design agency and everything has really led me to this point, given 444 00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:51.960 the relationships that I grew along the way and the skill set that I took, 445 00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:55.480 and I don't think I would have come to doing this fun had I 446 00:31:55.559 --> 00:31:59.400 not left my job or not done as well as I wanted to and kind 447 00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:02.799 of felt like I was a stagnant there and everything kind of change and happen 448 00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:07.680 for the reasons that it did. So for me personally, the book is 449 00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:12.759 untamed by Glenn and Doyle. I just constantly say to myself. We can 450 00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:15.359 do hard things. I can do hard things, which is what now she 451 00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:19.880 has a podcast about doing hard things and I hear her voice in me just 452 00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:23.480 to guiding that. I think that both in starting this business and in getting 453 00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:28.839 through my first, you know, thirty plus years of life, it's always 454 00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:32.000 been going up against those hard things and being able to come out on top, 455 00:32:32.039 --> 00:32:37.240 even if there's failure involved. Those failures are the most important to recognize 456 00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:39.519 and having that be a part of the story and I've just I've loved it. 457 00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:44.599 It just gave me such comfort in knowing being who I am and and 458 00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:50.319 I think Lennon is the coolest woman alive. And then, professionally, tools 459 00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:53.440 of titans by Jim Ferris, which someone one of my close friends, gave 460 00:32:53.559 --> 00:32:58.240 to me actually when we're and I were starting our business, and I you 461 00:32:58.319 --> 00:33:02.000 know, it starts with the forward by Arna Schwarzenegger and it's just what his 462 00:33:02.440 --> 00:33:06.960 all the things about how you start and again, the failures and how they 463 00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:10.279 lead to your successes in the importance of acknowledging all of that and even the 464 00:33:10.279 --> 00:33:14.680 minutia and how those little things, you might not think anything of them, 465 00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:17.519 the importance and what they give to the bigger picture. It's all so valuable. 466 00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:21.759 And then just being able to hear from these these titans of success and 467 00:33:21.799 --> 00:33:24.799 what it means across so many different industries. It's really inspiring it. I 468 00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:28.640 just I pick and pick up that book constantly. I love it so much. 469 00:33:28.680 --> 00:33:31.359 No, that's amazing. All these book racks. I don't think anyone 470 00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:35.519 on the show is mentioned any of these. So really so you both are 471 00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:37.880 very original. Yeah, you both are very original. So really excited to 472 00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:45.359 add the ball. It's good as you're not VC's and anyway, I think 473 00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:50.880 that like my when you were talking care about untamed and about we can do 474 00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:53.160 hard things and have that voice in your head. For me that's I don't 475 00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:57.720 know if you've read the war of art, but for me that's like that's 476 00:33:57.799 --> 00:34:01.839 for me. Talks a lot about it in high school. I think. 477 00:34:01.839 --> 00:34:07.160 So cool. Yes, Steven Pastfield talks a lot about the resistance and battling 478 00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:09.239 the resistance and, like I did, that's like, I guess, like 479 00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:14.039 Myle Driving Board to so very, very cool. My last question for you 480 00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:16.400 both is what's one piece of advice? You both have four founders. I 481 00:34:16.519 --> 00:34:21.360 would just going off of everything we just talked about failures not the end at 482 00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:22.800 all, I think. You know, I heard someone say that and I 483 00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:27.599 was just like, yeah, failures as important to success. It all gives 484 00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:30.920 way to success and maybe flip been how you're viewing things, not looking at 485 00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:34.880 as a failure. But where do you go from here? I think also 486 00:34:35.239 --> 00:34:38.880 having passion, passion behind everything that you're doing, because if you live and 487 00:34:38.920 --> 00:34:44.199 breathe your company, that's going to come through and talk about your company. 488 00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:46.679 Like I, as Cara said, I fall in love with every single founder 489 00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:51.320 that will walk to you and I like, immediately I'm obsessed with the product. 490 00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:53.920 It's because I feed off of their energy. I believe what they're preaching 491 00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:58.239 to me, and that's really what's important. And you know, it was 492 00:34:58.280 --> 00:35:00.000 the same thing with us with simple too adventures. Like we live and breathe 493 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:05.880 this and we think what we're doing is incredibly awesome and we love working every 494 00:35:05.960 --> 00:35:08.119 day, and I know it's a huge, important part here to yeah, 495 00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:12.320 being a successful founder and being excited, and I think that goes hand in 496 00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:15.559 hand with passion. So I guess that's adding a third thing, but we 497 00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:20.800 got it every day and word, I don't call us whatever you want but 498 00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:24.360 truly excited about the people who get to speak to and hearing everything in the 499 00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:29.039 listening. It's just amazing how it all comes together. Yeah, I think 500 00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:31.760 that enthusiasm can just be infectious. I love these. These are these are 501 00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:35.840 great. Well, grier and Kreat, this has been so much fun having 502 00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:38.360 you both thought. Thanks again for taking the time. Thank you. This 503 00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:42.440 is great. And there you have it. It was awesome chatting with greer 504 00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:45.639 and Kara. I hope you all enjoyed it. If you enjoyed this episode, 505 00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:47.360 I love it if you'd write a review on the apple podcast. You're 506 00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:52.159 also welcome to follow me your host Mike, on twitter at my guelb and 507 00:35:52.159 --> 00:36:17.840 also follow for episode announcements at Consumer VC. Thanks for listening, everyone,