March 8, 2022

Jackie Fast (Sandbox Studios) - How to Build a Talent-Led Brand, The Intersection of Celebrity x Entrepreneurship and What Makes A Great Partnership

Jackie Fast (Sandbox Studios) - How to Build a Talent-Led Brand, The Intersection of Celebrity x Entrepreneurship and What Makes A Great Partnership

Our guest today is Jackie Fast, Managing Partner at Sandbox Studios VC. Sandbox Studios is a 'next-generation' venture capital firm which addresses the challenge of funding and collaboration expertise for celebrity-owned products. She’s also well known for founding the agency Slingshot Sponsorship which she started from her bedroom with 2k pounds and a laptop to a multi-million-dollar global powerhouse. On this episode we discuss when it makes sense for a company / founder to partner with a celebrity, the intersection of talent and entrepreneurship especially when it comes to consumer brands.

Some of the questions I ask Jackie:

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:16.920 Hello and welcome to the consumer VC. I am your host, Michael, 2 00:00:17.120 --> 00:00:20.960 and on this show we talked about the world of venture capital and innovation in 3 00:00:21.000 --> 00:00:25.480 both consumer technology and consumer products. If you're enjoying this content, you could 4 00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:30.480 subscribe to my newsletter, the consumer VC DOT sub stackcom, to get each 5 00:00:30.519 --> 00:00:34.719 new episode and more consumer news delivered straight to your inbox. Our guest today 6 00:00:34.759 --> 00:00:39.679 is Jacky fast, managing partner at Sandbox Studios. Sandbox studios is a next 7 00:00:39.679 --> 00:00:46.560 generation venture capital firm which addresses the challenge of funding and collaboration expertise for celebrity 8 00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:51.799 owned products. She's also well known for pounding the agency sling shot sponsorship, 9 00:00:51.799 --> 00:00:55.880 which she started from her bedroom of two thousand pounds and a laptop and created 10 00:00:55.960 --> 00:01:02.119 a multimillion dollar global powerhouse working with Rolling Stones Sir Richard Branson. On this 11 00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:07.040 episode we discuss when it makes sense for a company or a founder to partner 12 00:01:07.120 --> 00:01:12.439 with a celebrity and the intersection of talent and entrepreneurship, especially when it comes 13 00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:22.840 to consumer brands. Without further ADO, here's Jackie. Jackie, thank you 14 00:01:22.920 --> 00:01:26.239 so much for joining me today. How are you doing? I am very 15 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:29.840 excited to be here. Thanks so much, Mike, it's an absolute plea 16 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:33.760 measure heaving you on. I am so excited to to have a chat. 17 00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:36.640 This is going to be fun. So when you and I first spoke, 18 00:01:36.680 --> 00:01:38.400 we talked about how you start off your career in London. But why? 19 00:01:38.439 --> 00:01:42.799 Didn't know? What was your initial attraction to London? How did you get 20 00:01:42.840 --> 00:01:46.560 there and why'd you end up leaving Canada? So I usually like to tell 21 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:49.959 people that I went to Europe to, like, you know, pursue other 22 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:53.799 venues. The truth is I was very young and I got in a fight 23 00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:57.079 with my boyfriend and I bought the cheapest ticket out of Canada to the English 24 00:01:57.079 --> 00:02:01.200 speaking country that I could find when I was drunk at three in the morning 25 00:02:01.359 --> 00:02:06.000 and my mother told me that I needed to sleep it off and see if 26 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:08.240 that was really the right decision, and I just kind of went with it 27 00:02:08.560 --> 00:02:12.520 and honestly, it was the best thing I ever did. But it was 28 00:02:12.759 --> 00:02:15.960 very unplanned, as is most of the decisions in my life, if I'm 29 00:02:15.039 --> 00:02:17.639 honest, and then I've just made the made the best of Ed and, 30 00:02:17.879 --> 00:02:20.879 like I said, I mean moving to London was the best thing I ever 31 00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:24.520 did. Amazing, amazing. So why was it the best thing that ever 32 00:02:24.599 --> 00:02:29.000 happened to you? Well, I grew up in a small suburb outside of 33 00:02:29.080 --> 00:02:34.400 Vancouver, Canada, and you know, it was a great childhood experience, 34 00:02:34.439 --> 00:02:38.080 but the exposure to like how the world works was limited. I think I 35 00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:43.159 had just graduated university. Most of my friends were wanting to be teachers, 36 00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:46.120 nurses or waitresses and that wasn't really what I wanted to do. But the 37 00:02:46.120 --> 00:02:49.840 truth of the matter is I didn't know what I wanted to do. So 38 00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:53.360 when I landed in London, backpack in hand, you know, to see 39 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:58.879 the world, it really was frightening how much stuff I did, like the 40 00:02:58.919 --> 00:03:01.840 financial industry, I had never even heard about, and just the experience with 41 00:03:01.840 --> 00:03:07.120 people that were maybe slightly educated in a different way, exposure to Europe and 42 00:03:07.159 --> 00:03:12.520 it just opened up a whole new world of like entrepreneurship that I was never 43 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:15.599 exposed to as a child. That's amazing. So was the initial plan when 44 00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:19.840 he got to London was to actually go and see the world and maybe like 45 00:03:19.879 --> 00:03:23.960 London was like the first stop for that and then you kind of got sucked 46 00:03:24.039 --> 00:03:28.479 into London or like what was kind of like the thinking once you landed? 47 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:31.120 So the idea was I was going to backpack ere okay, for two months. 48 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:36.080 So I arrived with backpack and I had heard that you could work, 49 00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:38.319 you didn't have to pay rent if you worked at a pub. So my 50 00:03:38.479 --> 00:03:43.719 very first stop in London is, and this is like Super Hilarious to most 51 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:46.039 people who know me, I lived in the back of a shed in tuting 52 00:03:46.039 --> 00:03:51.360 Broadway and a tuting runaway pub, which is like a dodgy place in London, 53 00:03:51.400 --> 00:03:54.639 in February, which is like five, and I used to sleep with 54 00:03:54.719 --> 00:04:00.479 like a space heater in at a sleeping bag, and that's kind of where 55 00:04:00.520 --> 00:04:03.120 I started out. And the idea was I would go to Spain and Italy 56 00:04:03.159 --> 00:04:05.520 and all of these things. But the truth of the matter is I landed 57 00:04:05.560 --> 00:04:11.199 in London and I really immediately fell in love with it and I managed to 58 00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:14.520 see all of those wonderful places kind of over a time, but I you 59 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:16.079 know, I landed in London loved it. I stayed at the pub job 60 00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:20.920 for like only three weeks. Then I became a receptionist that a gym until 61 00:04:20.959 --> 00:04:25.759 I kind of figured out my way and eventually got a job as a sponsorship 62 00:04:25.800 --> 00:04:29.759 manager, and that's kind of how it all started. Yeah, that's that's 63 00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:33.680 a maazing. That's amazing. So how did you get into sponsorships? I 64 00:04:33.680 --> 00:04:36.720 mean, I know that you kind of tease it by saying that you became 65 00:04:36.839 --> 00:04:42.519 a spartnership manager after you were receptionist, but was there like initial attraction to 66 00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:46.240 spotnorship, or are you just kind of like, I just need money to 67 00:04:46.279 --> 00:04:48.519 survive and just got I'll kind of go with D with kind of anything that 68 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:51.720 kind of pays the bills? I was on a working holiday visa in London 69 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:57.680 and I desperately needed a visa and so I was. I had to happen 70 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:00.920 to do some contract jobs for our coming called the Di Direct Marketing Association and 71 00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:04.480 they had a job as an events manager come up and I said, well, 72 00:05:04.519 --> 00:05:08.199 if I applied for this and I got it, would you get me 73 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:11.120 my visa? And they said well, maybe, why don't you come for 74 00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:15.079 an interview? So I bombed the interview, not not because I couldn't do 75 00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:17.600 the job, just I didn't really want to, and I think they sussed 76 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:21.160 that out and after three days the marketing director kind of caught me in the 77 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:25.120 hallway. He said, I see that you have sponsorship in your title. 78 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:28.319 Would you be a sponsorship manager and I said, like, I see that 79 00:05:28.360 --> 00:05:30.839 you have sponsorship in your CV. Would you be a sponsored manager? And 80 00:05:30.839 --> 00:05:32.240 I said, well, does it come with a visa? And he said 81 00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:35.279 Yeah, if you're a sponsorship if you take this job, it will, 82 00:05:35.319 --> 00:05:41.360 and I was like done at that point. I had never understood what sponsorship 83 00:05:41.560 --> 00:05:46.079 was. This the word, the title sponsorship was in my resume because I 84 00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:48.680 had worked previously at a golf resort and I was doing the marketing role and 85 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:51.959 a girl doing the same role didn't want the same title as me and so 86 00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:56.439 they gave me the role of sponsorship, even though I was never doing sponsorship. 87 00:05:56.439 --> 00:05:59.879 And so my first job and sponsorship. I had no experience, no 88 00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:02.560 clue, had no idea what I was doing and so frantically went home and 89 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:09.639 googled what is sponsorship and how do I do sponsorship, and and that you 90 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:11.879 know, and that's kind of how I got the job. They gave me 91 00:06:11.920 --> 00:06:16.319 a visa, but I think because I was so nervous about doing a bad 92 00:06:16.399 --> 00:06:19.199 job and also not just doing a bad job. I would do bad job 93 00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:25.399 and I would lose my visa, I really overcompensated. My first target was 94 00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:29.399 fiftyzero pounds in the first year I brought in a hundred eighty three thousand pounds 95 00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:31.319 and then by the third year I was bringing in half a million. So, 96 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:34.920 although I didn't know what sponsorship was, but I took the job, 97 00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:39.959 I was, you know, hell bent on keeping my visa and I managed 98 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:44.879 to create really new model of sponsorship which kind of paved the way for me 99 00:06:44.959 --> 00:06:48.199 launching sling shot. That's amazing. So talked us a little bit about what 100 00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:51.160 spontorship is, maybe like what like a day day life is, with thoughts 101 00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:55.439 of how you were helping brands or partner with brandy. I think that would 102 00:06:55.439 --> 00:07:00.120 be also really helpful. So, as a fundamental sponsorship is effectively tapping into 103 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:04.000 somebody else's audience, and it's really base crap way. It would be like 104 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:09.399 a logo on your favorite Football Jersey like that, that is and that's brand 105 00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:13.040 awareness. So it typically is for Browns who are trying to, you know, 106 00:07:13.120 --> 00:07:16.519 keep things front of mine and Cocacola at the board level, and this 107 00:07:16.600 --> 00:07:23.199 is a true statement from the like chief marketing officer from Cocacola. They used 108 00:07:23.199 --> 00:07:26.759 to do their sponsorship. Thesis was we like Your Shit, so you should 109 00:07:26.839 --> 00:07:30.920 drink our ship. That was their tangle of sponsorship and they used to like 110 00:07:30.040 --> 00:07:34.199 last cocacola logos everywhere, to be associated with things that people like. And 111 00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:39.000 the truth is it works because it's brand awareness and it makes things front mine. 112 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:43.399 So going back, it's basically you typically you your trading a logo for 113 00:07:44.199 --> 00:07:48.199 association with something, an exposure to another audience. In terms of my day 114 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:51.920 to day job, I worked with both brands and talent. With talent or 115 00:07:51.959 --> 00:07:57.040 properties, I would go get sponsors. So if you were a football team 116 00:07:57.160 --> 00:08:00.360 or a hockey team or baseball team or whatever, you would hire me and 117 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:03.240 I would kind of decide what's the most valuable asset? Is it the front 118 00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:07.279 a shirt? Is it the box? How is that packaged up? What 119 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:09.920 is the cost of that? And then I take that out to your cocacola's, 120 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:16.439 pepsicolas Diagios of the world and sell the sponsorship with my talent clients. 121 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:18.360 So I worked with the rolling stones, which a brands, and Elton John. 122 00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:24.639 I would be tasked with typically helping them commercialize things like their tour and 123 00:08:24.680 --> 00:08:26.959 so that that's kind of what I did. So I mean a lot of 124 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:31.759 the time, I mean daytoday I was like really, it was very sales 125 00:08:31.839 --> 00:08:35.919 focused, but it's also really heavily creative and understanding how to leverage partnerships. 126 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:39.960 But the best part of my job is by the time it comes to said 127 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:45.679 festival or football game or whatever the case is, my job is done. 128 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:50.000 So I usually just get drunk backstage at like really great events. That's like 129 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:52.159 the truth that that's like a true statement. That was my job and my 130 00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:58.159 clients will attest to that and I was very good at my job. But 131 00:08:58.200 --> 00:09:00.279 that's great, though, because I mean, like, unlike a lot of 132 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:03.679 people's jobs in entertainment or at events, that night at the event, that's 133 00:09:03.720 --> 00:09:07.919 really when your actual job begins, right, that's actually usually entertainment, your 134 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:11.480 Fridays, your Monday right, and so it's the fact that you actually could 135 00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:15.639 actually enjoy yourself at these events because you've actually done all the work, you've 136 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:18.960 got the placement right, you brought the partnership together. That's amazing. And 137 00:09:18.039 --> 00:09:22.279 so talking a little about slingshot and what led you to start your own spontnorship 138 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:28.840 company. So similar again, it's like getting a flight to London. I 139 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:33.000 probably would have stayed at my previous job as a sponsorship manager for a longer, 140 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:35.759 but what happened is the marketing director who hired me moved on and they 141 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:39.480 hired a new CEO and a job for a commercial director came up and I 142 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:43.279 applied for it because I and, quite frankly, in hinds, that I 143 00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:46.399 should have gone it. I was turned down because I was told I didn't 144 00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:50.399 have enough experience, even though I was the second person bringing in the most 145 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:54.720 revenue of the entire company, and there's seventy five people there. But that's 146 00:09:54.759 --> 00:09:58.679 by the by. But what really arked me is that they then hired a 147 00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:01.480 guy to this day, is probably the worst person I've ever worked with, 148 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:05.240 and I get interviewed all the time and I say this like all the time 149 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:09.360 and he's never like ever reached out to be like I'm really sorry, but 150 00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:11.000 no, he was the worst person I've ever worked with. He would be 151 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:13.919 so bad that you would pitch him an idea and he'd forgot that you pitched 152 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:18.279 it to him and then tell you the next morning, like don't you think 153 00:10:18.279 --> 00:10:22.279 I'm so clever? And I am not one to hold my tongue and I 154 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:28.039 do not last very long and after a pretty large fight, I stormed out 155 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:31.159 then went to try to find and at that point I was in the UK. 156 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:35.879 That was my only experience working in London. So, I mean I 157 00:10:35.879 --> 00:10:39.080 had to keep going in sponsorship because that's all I oh, I had done, 158 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:41.840 and there were only seven agencies at the time in London who did sponsorship. 159 00:10:41.840 --> 00:10:45.960 I applied for every single one of them. Nobody would even take a 160 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:48.120 meeting with me because what I was doing was corporate sponsorship. What they were 161 00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:52.360 doing a sports sponsorship, and so I set up a slingshot sponsorship really with 162 00:10:52.399 --> 00:10:56.919 the idea that I wanted to make enough money to pay rent. I think 163 00:10:56.960 --> 00:11:01.279 my business plan was I wanted to make eighty three thousand pounds a year or 164 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:05.480 eighty onezero pounds a year. It was its minimal and again, not disimber 165 00:11:05.559 --> 00:11:09.080 till like being worried about keeping my visa, you know. I just I 166 00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:13.960 really grafted and we ended up winning some credible clients. Prince was one of 167 00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:18.360 my first clients and we just kind of nailed that out of the water. 168 00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:22.399 And the seven companies of the seven companies I tried to get a job with 169 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:26.759 that didn't interview me, two of them I almost bought at one point. 170 00:11:26.039 --> 00:11:30.559 Two of them one under and one of them tried to buy us or I 171 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:33.960 almost sold to one of them. So yeah, it's a pretty incredible story. 172 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:37.720 The value of sling show was is that we did everything from like sustainability 173 00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:41.240 conferences. I did a TV show in Ghana. Did help them find like 174 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:46.080 sponsorships for that. You know, one of one of my favorite clients is 175 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:48.720 Richard Branson. We did a bunch of blockchain events for him in two thousand 176 00:11:48.759 --> 00:11:52.720 and fourteen, when that was kind of like hitting it big and understanding how 177 00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:58.240 to commercialize those. So the skill set is I mean the sectors were super 178 00:11:58.240 --> 00:12:01.000 diverse, which really plays into what I do now, because I've literally had 179 00:12:01.039 --> 00:12:05.279 exposure in shoes, t shirts, alcohol, water, Brad S, the 180 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:09.440 steinability, Bitcoin, Sass. Like there's almost nothing I haven't touched. And 181 00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:13.919 it seems like because obviously we're going to talk about fedger capital here in a 182 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:18.360 second, it seems like you've done an incredible job of billion your network and 183 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:22.320 billion network very, very fast. But how do you advise its me? 184 00:12:22.440 --> 00:12:24.200 VC is kind of also, it seems like sponsorship a very, you know, 185 00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:28.200 network industry, very tight industry. How do you go about or maybe 186 00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:31.960 some like piece of advice around how someone should like build their network quite as 187 00:12:33.039 --> 00:12:35.519 quickly as you did. I mean honestly, the truth of the matter is 188 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:39.159 is I have a one year old baby now and things things I probably would 189 00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:45.159 have said pre baby, and also pre pandemic or different and you know, 190 00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:48.039 before that I would say yes to everything. You know, I attended all 191 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:52.120 of the events and you know, I tried to speak it as I mean, 192 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:54.840 that's thing shot. I spoke a kind of like any event that anybody 193 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:58.279 wanted me to speak at, and at that point, once I sold, 194 00:12:58.279 --> 00:13:01.279 I was like such a sought after speaker I was able to charge a crazy 195 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:07.120 amounts of money because I built but I had built out that network of like 196 00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:09.399 this is, this is what I talked about and people loved to hear me 197 00:13:09.399 --> 00:13:11.759 speak. You know, it also helps him a woman in a male dominated 198 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:16.120 industry. You know, people want to see the diversity. So I would 199 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:20.600 say go to as many things as possible and now I would say, like 200 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:26.279 really lean into the connectors, you know, the people that have better network. 201 00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:28.720 So I am a connector and if you would have hit me up in 202 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:33.240 London, there's not anybody I didn't know. So you know, if you 203 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:35.759 let it in London and you had a coffee usually, and this is the 204 00:13:35.799 --> 00:13:37.240 other thing, like you take me out for a drink, I will go. 205 00:13:37.399 --> 00:13:41.080 It doesn't matter who you are. If you offer me free alcohol, 206 00:13:41.159 --> 00:13:43.480 I will show up. I love a glass of wine. And then it's 207 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:46.600 those people that are like, Oh, this person's doing this and I can 208 00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:50.960 connect them. And so I think my new strategy now is really like, 209 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:52.559 I don't have as much time as I used to do, so now I 210 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:58.840 just like really focus on where I spend my time. So you sell slingshot. 211 00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:01.759 What was your attraction with maybe early stage companies and why did you want 212 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:05.679 to head into VC and become an investor? Well, it's actually, surprisingly, 213 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:09.960 it's taken me a really long time to get to where we are at 214 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:13.000 now. When I sold in two thousand and sixteen, it happened really quick 215 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:18.480 and it was an amazing exit and I'm so happy I did it. But 216 00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:20.240 you know, everybody was telling me, because I'm a bit of a work 217 00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:22.519 all, like take your time, take your time, don't jump in and 218 00:14:22.600 --> 00:14:24.840 thing, don't jump in and into anything, and I was like, I 219 00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:26.720 was still young and I made all this money. I was like, of 220 00:14:26.759 --> 00:14:30.480 course not. I like spend two thousand and eighteen, just like doing whatever 221 00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:33.159 I wanted to. went to burning man, got married when on a TV 222 00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:35.600 show, like really crazy stuff, and then kind of what I wanted to 223 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:41.600 buckle down. I was really unsure of what I wanted to do and I 224 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:45.159 had seen other as you would, I look at other people who have had 225 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:48.200 exits and asked, like looked at what they were doing, and they all 226 00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:50.200 tended to be angel investors, and I said, how hard could that be? 227 00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:58.919 And without having ever had any experience or even speaking to successful Angel Investors, 228 00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:01.159 which I should have done, I decided to blow a lot of my 229 00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:07.159 money on startups, having never done it before. So it was a big 230 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:13.720 learning lesson. But because of what I had done with sling shot and my 231 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:18.639 background and the types of check sizes I was writing, I was offered board 232 00:15:18.759 --> 00:15:22.720 positions and almost every single company I invested in, and it was that experience 233 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:26.919 that really led me to VC. So I you know, I invested in 234 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:30.120 a bunch of kind of I've got a Fintech I've got to be to be 235 00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:33.039 advertising agency. I've got our Arma's bag company in Asia, a very, 236 00:15:33.159 --> 00:15:37.399 very random stuff. Like I did not have like a thesis. I was 237 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:39.559 like, Oh, this founder, sounds cool, this is a cool idea, 238 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:43.480 let's do this, which was I would never recommend. Actually, I 239 00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:46.320 think what I did was really bad, but also it's kind of given me 240 00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:50.799 the experience to do the VC fund correctly. But as I was sitting around 241 00:15:50.840 --> 00:15:56.080 these tables, and truthfully, all of them were men and three of them 242 00:15:56.080 --> 00:15:58.279 were from VC's three of them like that. It was the founder, the 243 00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:03.000 CFO and somebody else, and nobody seemed to really have the right questions around 244 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:07.320 how to build a consumer brand. And yet they all were sitting on a 245 00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:11.000 board of a consumer brand and it was pretty shocking to me. And then, 246 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:15.960 beyond that, I didn't understand that venture capital was invested in a hundred 247 00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:18.799 companies. Wait till five break out and then actually care about the five. 248 00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:22.360 And so I would be sitting in these boards where people weren't really doing any 249 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:25.879 work. And it came to a blow. I got in a fight in 250 00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:30.240 one board room, which sounds through, which actually like. As I'm saying. 251 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:34.840 It sounds ridiculous, but I remember they were talking about launching a new 252 00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:37.879 product or skiw or something, and I said, what did your what are 253 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:41.799 your previous customers have to say? And I remember distinctly one of the venture 254 00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:45.559 capitalists across the table rolling his eyes, like here she goes again, she's 255 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:48.200 going to take more time up on our board room, and I like looked 256 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:51.519 at him as I do you have a problem? And he said, well, 257 00:16:51.559 --> 00:16:52.759 you know, I think they've covered the numbers. I was like listen, 258 00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:55.879 if they can't answer this, went to the CEO. Is like what 259 00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:56.679 did your customers say? Is like, well, what do you mean? 260 00:16:56.759 --> 00:17:00.200 I said, what did your customers say? So will how would we know? 261 00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:03.680 I'm like you ask them and they're like, well, how would we 262 00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:07.720 do that? I'm like you've got their phone number, don't you? And 263 00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:10.440 then I was just like okay, listen, I'm going to come in on 264 00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:12.960 Tuesday morning. I'll come in with your junior team, I'll write a script, 265 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:15.759 I'll do old like all do, like thirty calls. You can like 266 00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:19.400 get a sample of like this is how we get feedback from our customers to 267 00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:23.519 like grow the product and stuff. And what happened is that these moments happened 268 00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:27.519 with like the six investments that I made and I was working six full days 269 00:17:27.559 --> 00:17:33.079 a week junior level positions because nobody else wanted to do it, and and 270 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:36.680 I was going crazy and my husband finally sat me down after six months and 271 00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:37.839 it was like you need to stop, you need to make a plan, 272 00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:41.079 like you're so much more stressed out. And not only was I not getting 273 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:45.799 paid, I had paid for the luxury to work and like account executive roles, 274 00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:48.880 right, because I was an investor, but I was the only one 275 00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:53.640 who seemed to care about it. And so I kind of took a step 276 00:17:53.720 --> 00:17:57.599 back and was like, how do I do this in a more effective way? 277 00:17:57.720 --> 00:18:02.160 And the the solution was really like I need to hone in on what 278 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:04.559 I'm good at, and I'm very good. I am like the best in 279 00:18:04.599 --> 00:18:08.839 the field for sponsorship and partnerships and talent. And Fortunately, at that time, 280 00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:14.319 which was last year, you know, the growth of talent owned brands. 281 00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:18.759 So Your Cast Amigos Aviation Gin beats by dre grown exponentially. You know, 282 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:22.440 now it's almost you don't see any dy to see brand without talent attached 283 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:26.079 to it. And so we kind of honed in on that very strong, 284 00:18:26.200 --> 00:18:30.039 very specific thesis and we launched. Launched with that, but I mean it 285 00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:33.839 was it was a three year process, I would say, to get to 286 00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:36.200 this point. He talked about that a little bit more in terms of the 287 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:41.680 actual thesis and what you mean by talent be part of the company or talent 288 00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:45.480 led or talent led companies. So at first I want to clarify and like 289 00:18:45.559 --> 00:18:48.599 so, I was in a call earlier this morning. When I say talent, 290 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:52.640 I don't talk hr so it's it's celebrities with brands. Just just for 291 00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:57.400 like all the listeners out there. But so sandbox studios. The fund exclusively 292 00:18:57.400 --> 00:19:03.559 invest in talent led brands. What that means is the business itself needs to 293 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:11.160 be driven and look at customer acquisition and distribution through talent now in it's in 294 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:15.200 the way that most people would understand it. Honest Company Jessica Alba, Goop, 295 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:18.640 one if Paul True, beats by Dre Dr Dre like. These are 296 00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:22.599 companies that are cofounded with celebrities who are effectively entrepreneurs who have decided to look 297 00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:27.039 at a different venture. Talent led also can be businesses that are driven and 298 00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:32.200 their execution and their product is talent. So the cameo is a talent led 299 00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:36.640 business, but not owned by a celebrity, for instance. And the reason 300 00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:41.720 that we hone in on this is because venture capital is trying to crack this. 301 00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:45.519 So people in my position, especially super senior people in my position a 302 00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:49.359 never going to venture. But also be like, there aren't a lot of 303 00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:53.279 us. It's a really cool job. It's very hard to crack into. 304 00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:56.359 So somebody who has grown up, built a business, sold a business in 305 00:19:56.440 --> 00:20:02.240 sponsorship, like you'll find like seven people globally who's done who've done that. 306 00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:04.720 So and then to have something like that venture. So that gives us a 307 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:11.319 huge USP on every venture fund out there and we're the only fund at seed 308 00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:15.640 who does it because we're the only ones who can evaluate it. And and 309 00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:18.160 to your point, like different to my angel investing, when like cool idea, 310 00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:23.599 like like the founder, we're now meticulous. So we've seen since September 311 00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:29.160 we've seen ninety six talent, let's startups raising and we've invested in five companies. 312 00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:32.480 What you're working with actual talent that's part of the company. I co 313 00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:37.119 found of the company. Do they are already need to be part of the 314 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:41.000 company order for to attract your interest, or could a company a consider better 315 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:45.119 poach you and say, Hey, we have this amazing brand, but we 316 00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:48.440 but we're looking for maybe like a face of the brand or someone that may 317 00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:52.759 be interested in partnering and with that, for example, be of interest to 318 00:20:52.759 --> 00:20:55.400 you, even though they don't have their may be looking for talent to be 319 00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:59.160 part of the band or maybe have a relationship with, but that's actually not 320 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:04.640 the current state of the company. So to answer that question is like twofold. 321 00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:08.400 Yes, I can do all of that. And there is one company 322 00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:12.480 that we are investing in that I pulled in a celebrity that I know very 323 00:21:12.519 --> 00:21:15.559 well. So because of my networks in my relationships, it's very easy for 324 00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:18.559 me to pick up the phone. However, if I, if we kind 325 00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:21.880 of went out and said that, I would never have any time. So 326 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:23.960 going to like, well, just like I where, you know, I'm 327 00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:29.200 like a solo GP right. So our fund is only fifteen million. We've 328 00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:32.240 seen ninety six talent led start us. Is All of a sudden I'm starting 329 00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:34.599 to open up looking at cool brands. I just I mean, I wouldn't 330 00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:40.359 have any time. So our fund will only invest when there's talent. Now 331 00:21:40.359 --> 00:21:45.799 we have an agency because this keeps coming up like great product, great founder. 332 00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:48.160 Love it, but our fund thesis is we only invest in talent. 333 00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:53.839 So we have an agency team that it's kind of mixed with xca, Xuta, 334 00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:57.960 x, kind of like music label people that kind of work with brands 335 00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:03.000 to strategize. And I will say like it's not beneficial for every brand. 336 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:07.319 Talent isn't a magic bullet and I think a lot of people kind of think, 337 00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:11.799 oh well, if George, if Brian Reynolds invested in this and you 338 00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:14.759 know, well, we'll have like a billion dollar exit, and that's really 339 00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:18.880 not the case. And so really understanding why talent is the most important part. 340 00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:26.839 What do you think is the biggest misconception when you have talents part of 341 00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:30.079 a company? It could be like the relationship between all the brand it could 342 00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:33.880 be maybe what a town actually brings the brand. But I would just love 343 00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:37.000 to hear from your perspectives that you've talked to hundreds of thought thousands of entrepreneurs 344 00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:41.680 that of course, many of which probably want talents to be part of their 345 00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:45.319 brand. What are maybe questions that they should be asking themselves to see if 346 00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:49.799 it actually is like a ballad fit. So two misconceptions and they're totally opposite, 347 00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:56.240 which is weird. One is talent are are useless and very risky. 348 00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:00.960 That's a really big misconception and to say, and I mean my clients were 349 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:03.240 like prints in the rolling stones. So, like you know, you can 350 00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:08.680 manage and mitigate risk very easily and that the benefits always out way, almost 351 00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:12.480 always out way. So that is a misconception. The other the other is 352 00:23:12.519 --> 00:23:17.160 the opposite. Like to my point, I think people just assume if they 353 00:23:17.160 --> 00:23:22.160 had star power then their business is going to be like wildly successful. And 354 00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:25.519 going back to like cassimigoes, I really like. I like to use castom 355 00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:27.799 because George Cluney isn't the reason it was super successful. It was a combination 356 00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:32.160 of a bunch of things, but fundamentally their product hit the right market at 357 00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:34.839 the right time with the right price and they have the right distribution network in 358 00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:38.920 order to get that out there, which is why it kind of kind of 359 00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:45.720 work like that. So for brands that are in exceptionally cluttered spaces. So 360 00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:51.039 booze is an obvious one. Booze, water, coffee, things that you 361 00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:56.160 like consume that maybe product differentiation doesn't matter as much, food snacks, any 362 00:23:56.200 --> 00:23:59.599 of that kind of stuff. Like you when you go and look at a 363 00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:03.279 proto in Bar, there's like fifty of them. Aside from price what's the 364 00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:06.079 other thing you're going to think about? Right? It's cut through. There 365 00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:10.519 have been actually a couple brands that have approached us that are like really great 366 00:24:10.519 --> 00:24:14.240 brands, and one of them actually one of them that you know. So 367 00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:18.559 they are really, really heavily wanting to do and actually one of them that's 368 00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:22.279 been on your podcast really wanting to do talent and when we kind of broke 369 00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:26.440 it down, there was no good reason. So they're very different in the 370 00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:30.799 market. Nobody ever will be the same as them. They don't even have 371 00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:33.640 enough products to sell. They keep selling out every time and I'm like, 372 00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:37.039 why are you looking to give ten percent of your business to somebody who's not 373 00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:38.519 going to move the deal? Because there's nowhere to move the needle. You 374 00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:42.200 don't even have products to sell, and so like you got to really think 375 00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:45.799 strategically about what you're looking to do. I appreciate the thought. So the 376 00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:52.359 two misconceptions is that there's maybe one camp that thinks that talent is underrated and 377 00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:56.400 then one camp that thinks the talent is very overrated, right, like useless, 378 00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:59.440 risky, as you say. But when that's not the case and it 379 00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:02.960 seems like talent works well, it may be like commodity type products. I 380 00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:06.160 don't mean like, yes, there's like differentiation and like the different types of, 381 00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:07.720 you know, booze and what have you, but it could be that 382 00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:12.759 if it's more like a commodity, there's really not that much difference overall in 383 00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:17.640 the product than like talent could really really be helpful, helpful and really leverage 384 00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:19.920 it. And when does it make sense, though, because you got up 385 00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:26.319 a really good point after you said that about differentiator products and how, when 386 00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:30.880 you do have differentiate your products is can't talent still work when you do have 387 00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:34.720 differential product, like does it actually make sense or to the product be? 388 00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:37.680 On the other hand, since I just woke up, a commodity, what 389 00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:41.799 do you have? Differentiator products? Does it still make sense, or could 390 00:25:41.799 --> 00:25:45.440 it still make sense to actually partner with talent? So I am of the 391 00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:48.440 camp, and I have always been, that talent will get your business and 392 00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:52.480 your product farther than no talent, always, every single time, if you 393 00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:56.039 know what you're doing. So if you don't know what you're doing, that 394 00:25:56.039 --> 00:26:00.440 goes out the window. But, like, I have built my entire career 395 00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:03.559 creating the right partnerships for brands from foot one hundred brands to start up brands 396 00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:07.640 and every single time, if you know what you're doing, it gets you 397 00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:11.799 farther, faster, cheaper often, and so it always makes sense. Now 398 00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:15.880 it's what you're prepared to pay. Right like I'm a founder. I have 399 00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:18.640 this. I guess you can't really count the fund is my job, but 400 00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:22.720 I have founded two businesses, one of which I exited, the other as 401 00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:26.839 a vineyard, which is still successful today. As a founder, I don't 402 00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:30.640 like to give away equity. I sold my first business. I owned a 403 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:34.039 hundred percent of it. I'm very, very funny about wanting to keep my 404 00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:38.079 equity and I would probably do that at the cost of growth. That's probably 405 00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:41.759 not a smart thing to do. So you've got to kind of think about 406 00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:45.279 what it what you want really, but a hundred percent their talent is always 407 00:26:45.319 --> 00:26:48.759 the answer if you know what you're doing. I've got really two great examples. 408 00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:52.319 The one that I like to use a lot because most people are familiar 409 00:26:52.359 --> 00:26:56.359 with it as beats by Dre so you know you've most people seen the documentary, 410 00:26:56.359 --> 00:27:00.000 but have it really looked at like why the brand blew up so much? 411 00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:03.519 Now there's a whole bunch of reasons. Authenticity really is, for me, 412 00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:07.359 the first starting point. So in the show, Jimmy Irving's like, 413 00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:11.119 why would you do sneaker as? Why you a speakers whatever? It's like 414 00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:14.240 a good shift in in kind of the idea of it. The truth is 415 00:27:14.359 --> 00:27:18.160 Dr Dre is an expert in sound. He's a producer at heart. He 416 00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:23.920 understands music and differentiation and and what sounds good. So he has an expertise 417 00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:29.400 that lends into beats. Then you look at Jimmy and he's got the network. 418 00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:32.799 So then it's like an awareness funnel. So a the product starts with 419 00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:37.200 something that people heat like. There's an expert in sound creating something that is 420 00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:41.160 sound. He's he's also a celebrity. That kind of helps Jimmy Iov and 421 00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:44.359 then has the network of celebrities who just like where it doesn't matter if it 422 00:27:44.359 --> 00:27:48.920 works or it doesn't work, and so it's the funnel of awareness through talent. 423 00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:52.920 But a product that is it is on point, is authentic and is 424 00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:56.079 a good, good product. That is why that worked as well as it 425 00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:00.480 did. Now, conversely, codeap pictures great example with Lady Gaga. Lady 426 00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:04.279 Gaga, you know, you'd almost say Kodak was really ahead of the curve, 427 00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:07.680 which is so crazy for an antiquated, very old, traditional company, 428 00:28:07.759 --> 00:28:11.759 right, but they did. They were one of the first. They signed 429 00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:15.079 Lady Gaga. She was the creative director of CODAP. She was super hot 430 00:28:15.160 --> 00:28:19.400 at the time, new audience, millennial. It sounds good on paper, 431 00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:25.240 but lady Gaga doesn't care about cameras. Is Not like, interested in the 432 00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:29.759 technical aspect of it's not interested. She doesn't like her picture taken like base 433 00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:33.960 six small things. She's not authentically going to be interested in that. She 434 00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:37.240 took the money, like what the press launched, etc. Now that wouldn't 435 00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:41.839 be a problem if Kodek knew had to leverage it. There is now an 436 00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:47.039 opposing there's differing objectives. So Lady Gogan wants the paycheck. She kind of 437 00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:49.079 did that. She feels like her job is done. Codacs like this didn't 438 00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:53.839 work, because your face has not helped us shift more cameras. And what 439 00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:57.880 happens is they're both fighting because they need more time from her. She feels 440 00:28:57.880 --> 00:29:02.319 like she's given all of the time because she doesn't care. If she cared 441 00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:06.319 about it, it would be different. Lady Agar recently launched House laboratories, 442 00:29:06.319 --> 00:29:08.599 which is her beauty line. Lady Guga actually cares about it. She is 443 00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:12.839 in the love she created, the colors she wears, the makeup. She's 444 00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:15.839 interested in the looks. Like you know, she goes out, she like 445 00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:22.000 dolls herself up. She is very interested in changing her persona to feet. 446 00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:25.319 That her mood. That fits with the beauty line. So in three years 447 00:29:25.319 --> 00:29:27.880 down the road, when like House laboratories and Lady Gaga's doing something else, 448 00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:30.680 house are like, listen, you need to come and do this thing. 449 00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:33.200 Why don't we get on board? What kind of lipstick you care about? 450 00:29:33.319 --> 00:29:37.039 She'll take that. Meaning is her great examples. I think what's interesting to 451 00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:41.960 is in the two examples where it was successful, House and beats of course 452 00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:45.680 the talent, the celebrities, that of the companies, whereas Kodak, I 453 00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:51.079 would imagine she can get equity for Lady Gaga for being a spokesperson or for 454 00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:53.240 being part of Kodak. So my question to you, just based off those 455 00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:57.640 examples, how important is it for batters that are looking at talent for them 456 00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:03.079 to actually be part of a company in some ways and equity or not? 457 00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:07.359 I love that. That's a very good question and something I don't talk about 458 00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:10.920 enough. But you're a hundred percent right. I don't think it's important and 459 00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:12.880 jury and I think that's crazy. I don't think it's important at all. 460 00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:18.680 So my atsling shot. We never did equity because equity deals never happened. 461 00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:21.319 I talked to my kinds about doing equity all the time because I was like 462 00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:22.519 started up. It was like fine, if people are like all right, 463 00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:27.000 Jackie, just do your thing because it's too it's convoluted, like you have 464 00:30:27.039 --> 00:30:30.079 to set up another business, then they like how many shares you got to 465 00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:34.519 get the legals? It's so I'm I only, only only ever did sponsorship 466 00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:40.200 and our partnerships were insane. They sold so much of we work with start 467 00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:44.319 our runs, we work with like Hyenda. The the results on a great 468 00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:48.400 partnership that fits, that is authentic, or always the results. Equity, 469 00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:52.680 I don't think is important. Where equity comes into play is not on results, 470 00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:56.119 it's on the actual transaction. So if you are a startup, you 471 00:30:56.200 --> 00:31:00.359 cannot pay, you do not have enough capital to pay somebody the fee, 472 00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:03.839 the talent feed that they would normally charge, which is why all this equity 473 00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:07.839 stuff is happening. It's not because it's better, it's because it's what they 474 00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:11.480 can afford. Those are really great points. It just seems like if you're 475 00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:15.920 celebrity and you actually copeound a company, it seems like you're probably going to 476 00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:18.160 care more about that company. You don't think so. Getting here about more 477 00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:22.440 that company than an actual doing, like an actual partnership or or spatnorship type 478 00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:25.640 deal. You gotta remember, like this is not their job. So different 479 00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:29.079 to what of Paltrow and Jessica Alba, who's too, basically were like, 480 00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:33.160 okay, after things, my side hustle, but I'm passionate, like just 481 00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:37.440 a Al Bo's passionate about baby products that were natural because they were weren't any 482 00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:41.680 and she started having kids and she's like this is messed up and she literally 483 00:31:41.720 --> 00:31:45.039 struggled getting into target because it was like why is justic Alba creating a beauty 484 00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:48.640 line? That's so weird. When Paultro same deal, people are like nobody 485 00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:52.359 cares about steaming your vagina. Gwyneth, like, calm down, calm down, 486 00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:56.680 do another movie right that. This is like, I mean they really 487 00:31:56.680 --> 00:32:00.759 paved the way for this. But when I mean Natalie Portman started to shoe 488 00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:04.200 company, like I mean I used Code Act and maybe the codok was the 489 00:32:04.279 --> 00:32:07.279 best one. There are loads of hulks started a pass to company. I 490 00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:12.240 mean I can give you like a hundred examples where they were the sole owner. 491 00:32:12.279 --> 00:32:16.200 I mean Mark Wahlburger is are great example. Keeps launching companies that like 492 00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:22.960 are really horrify run and don't go anywhere. So owning, because you got 493 00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:28.039 to remember these people are not entrepreneurs. They are actors, musicians, you 494 00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:32.160 know, like whatever their talent and their skill set is talent. They also 495 00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:36.240 like lean into that. They that's what they like doing. So when they 496 00:32:36.319 --> 00:32:39.240 launched a shoe company, it's not their skill set. Those are excellent points, 497 00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:44.519 I mean excellent points about how they aren't natural entrepreneurs. That' thought how 498 00:32:44.559 --> 00:32:45.759 they made their money. That's what how they made their mark on all of 499 00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:49.880 us. It's not. It's not through that. It's through whether it's acting 500 00:32:49.960 --> 00:32:52.960 or or sports her or what have you. And if you're a founder and 501 00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:57.440 thinking about though, like partn with talent, like what else should you kind 502 00:32:57.440 --> 00:33:00.319 of like think about in that capacity in terms of how much they should be 503 00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:04.000 involved in the business like a celebrity, like should they not be? He'd 504 00:33:04.039 --> 00:33:06.359 like all right, like we will love you to be part of the company 505 00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:08.119 and obviously, I guess you we probably have to give you some equity, 506 00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:12.759 since we can actually really afford you at your price. But should you also 507 00:33:12.759 --> 00:33:15.640 maybe have an attachment in terms of okay, they're actually not going to be 508 00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:19.839 part at all that operate this business period. Well, if they're an equity 509 00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:22.839 partner, that's their investment. So I think that they should be as involved 510 00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:27.559 as you would want them to be. But I also I mean this is 511 00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:30.279 this is where the experience comes in. You have to know how to manage 512 00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:36.799 that. You know, I've spent a career managing talent and putting making sure 513 00:33:36.839 --> 00:33:38.839 that they stay in their lane and are happy to stay in their lane. 514 00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:43.200 But one, I mean a great example. We recently invest in a company 515 00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:46.359 called Happy Sake Sprintzer. It's a ready to drink seltzer with sake. It's 516 00:33:46.359 --> 00:33:51.960 amazing. One of the CO founders is Jordan barring, who's a male supermodal. 517 00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:55.440 He is fabulous. He has all these creative, crazy, I think, 518 00:33:55.480 --> 00:34:01.640 crazy ideas but like really tailored to the Gen z audience and like the 519 00:34:01.799 --> 00:34:06.519 his input is actually really valuable. Doesn't mean we're going to do all of 520 00:34:06.599 --> 00:34:09.800 it, but like, the more that you get him engaged, the more 521 00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:13.039 he's going to come up with the opportunities and the more it's going to be 522 00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:15.760 friend to mind, you know, and that's what you want. What was 523 00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:22.000 your method building relationships within the VC community? I mean, I'm still doing 524 00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:25.000 it, I think, so obviously I would. I would love more. 525 00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:29.440 I would. So any any introductions anybody would like to make? We would 526 00:34:29.480 --> 00:34:32.119 love to hear from you. It's a very different industry than the one I've 527 00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:35.960 worked in. Like that's the truth. You know, I'm in marketing and 528 00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:38.760 advertising and I've and I've also done that in Europe and now I've moved to 529 00:34:38.840 --> 00:34:44.199 America into a completely different industry, and so I've had to kind of work 530 00:34:44.199 --> 00:34:47.440 harder. And going back to my thing about finding connectors, I've I've managed 531 00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:53.159 to find some really great people in venture funds, where I'm very valuable to 532 00:34:53.199 --> 00:34:58.400 people because if they're looking at investing in something and they think that a talent 533 00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:01.400 would be a good fit, I can usually help them make that conversation happen. 534 00:35:01.480 --> 00:35:06.960 So you know, I am able to help where most people can in 535 00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:10.199 certain specific in a specific area, and that has proved useful and I didn't 536 00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:15.519 understand before I launched a fund that venture is very much you might be like 537 00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:21.199 in venture funds are very small companies, but actually you're so reliant on your 538 00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:27.320 venture network for deal flow and other opportunities, and so I really value other 539 00:35:27.400 --> 00:35:30.719 people in other venture funds that I've made friends with in La and just in 540 00:35:30.800 --> 00:35:37.519 America in general. What's one thing you would change about beture capital? One 541 00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:45.039 I think it's disgusting disappointing about women in VC. And I don't just mean 542 00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:52.119 fund managers, I also mean investors. So there are very few women who 543 00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:57.880 will invest in funds and yet many women who invest directly in female found in 544 00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:02.679 brands like deodorant or for a face cream, and I kind of get that, 545 00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:07.119 but if you but like it's a whole, my issue is that it's 546 00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:10.000 a whole thing. Right. So you don't have a lot of female fund 547 00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:14.679 managers. I think last I checked is four percent, and then the investors 548 00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:19.360 that invest in that are like way less than that. That are female investor. 549 00:36:19.480 --> 00:36:22.679 LP's, my guesses, is a lot less than that and it's a 550 00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:25.960 lot less because there's no female fund managers. So you're still and also I'm 551 00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:30.760 not trying to like you know, the truth of the matter is is VC 552 00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:35.320 funds are the ones putting in money in companies that are actually growing and scaling 553 00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:37.480 and going to the next series. And I'm not saying you can't take a 554 00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:42.320 punt by putting five thousand dollars in your neighbors like Deo during company, but 555 00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:46.000 like, if you really want to talk about diversity and make a change, 556 00:36:46.039 --> 00:36:51.760 like you have to start being part of the ecosystem. So that is something 557 00:36:51.880 --> 00:36:55.599 I feel pretty strongly about. I also do not like the the whole theory 558 00:36:55.599 --> 00:37:00.000 and thesis with VC funds that you invest in a hundred companies, you wait 559 00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:04.199 for five to break out, you sit on your ass and do nothing and 560 00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:07.960 then you fund the other five, because that relies on the idea of that 561 00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:13.280 money is the only issue, that is the only challenge for businesses and being 562 00:37:13.400 --> 00:37:17.159 a entrepreneur myself, that is the least thing. It's always top of mine 563 00:37:17.239 --> 00:37:22.840 because it's super stressful. But money is always for stuff and it's typically for 564 00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:25.159 people or something else. And if you do not have the people that are 565 00:37:25.159 --> 00:37:29.639 willing to back you, help you make the introductions, make the like, 566 00:37:29.719 --> 00:37:34.119 get your sales in like I did go to the things start like doing scripts 567 00:37:34.119 --> 00:37:37.920 for your junior people. You will not have a growing business and I think 568 00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:42.239 that Ben sure needs to stop being so like las a fair about where their 569 00:37:42.280 --> 00:37:46.000 investment dollars go and start putting real effort in terms of their like experience consulting 570 00:37:46.039 --> 00:37:51.039 a network. And I don't see that happening. Yeah, those are two 571 00:37:51.079 --> 00:37:53.239 great points, really great points. What's what book that is power do you 572 00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:57.239 personally and what both as part you professionally? Okay, so I've got really 573 00:37:57.280 --> 00:38:02.159 weird answers for this. So so, on the first one, my husband 574 00:38:02.360 --> 00:38:07.239 like reads voraciously and I used to do as a child and then I just 575 00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:09.199 don't have the time anymore. I feel like I said everyone year baby. 576 00:38:09.199 --> 00:38:14.320 I'm going to blame it on the baby. But my personal book is I 577 00:38:14.440 --> 00:38:17.239 am pilgrim, not because of the book, but it took him ten years 578 00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:21.000 to write it and it was like I think it's one of the last kind 579 00:38:21.039 --> 00:38:24.400 of books out there and I just I love that. I love like the 580 00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:30.199 long graft and I love, you know, I think there's really something to 581 00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:34.000 say, you know, and I especially built a business on like insta famous 582 00:38:34.039 --> 00:38:36.519 stuff, but like this thing shot was the same. Like, I think 583 00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:39.119 there is something about like putting in the work and I think so many people 584 00:38:39.199 --> 00:38:45.039 overlook the hours and the time spent and like the amount of self motivation that's 585 00:38:45.079 --> 00:38:49.280 required to kind of get the level of success that most people are trying to 586 00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:52.000 achieve with like no, no effort. I Love I am pilgrim for that. 587 00:38:52.119 --> 00:38:57.599 And professionally, and this is a bit of a flaw, but my 588 00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:00.559 the second book I wrote is called Real break or rebellious leadership for the future 589 00:39:00.679 --> 00:39:06.639 work, and the reason why I'm plugging that is because I was actually commissioned 590 00:39:06.679 --> 00:39:08.039 to write a leadership book and I was like, I don't really have anything 591 00:39:08.119 --> 00:39:13.639 to say about leadership, and I did all this research about rule breaking just 592 00:39:13.719 --> 00:39:16.400 because of my experience and I speak to a lot of people who want to 593 00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:22.000 be entrepreneurs and are usually working a corporate job and really scared to take the 594 00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:23.960 leap. And, like you know, as I kind of talked to you, 595 00:39:24.119 --> 00:39:28.559 I was really forced to take the lead multiple times actually with all of 596 00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:32.840 my things, and I kind of wish there was more more conversation around. 597 00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:37.920 It's kind of taking a leap of faith and not being like when I was 598 00:39:37.960 --> 00:39:39.880 looking at starting a business, I thought you had to have more you have 599 00:39:39.960 --> 00:39:43.280 to know more people, you had to have more money than takes money to 600 00:39:43.280 --> 00:39:45.679 make money, all of that kind of stuff. And the truth of the 601 00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:47.719 matter is our world is so different now. You can start a business with 602 00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:51.840 a lap talk and it can be you know, we were generating an eight 603 00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:55.239 figures within three years and I started that business with two Thousan pounds. I 604 00:39:55.239 --> 00:39:59.840 think the opportunities now are like, really vast. I think more conversation needs 605 00:39:59.880 --> 00:40:02.519 to be out there for people who were looking to start up a business. 606 00:40:02.559 --> 00:40:06.920 No, definitely. I really appreciate you sharing both these books and really excited 607 00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:09.679 to add them to the real list and also really excited I didn't read your 608 00:40:09.679 --> 00:40:14.719 books while so I have to read rule breaker and and and certainly have to 609 00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:16.199 read I am pilgrim as well. I found. A question to you is, 610 00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:20.880 what's one piece of advice you have for founders? Never give up and 611 00:40:20.920 --> 00:40:23.480 just keep going. I think the one thing is like it's a it's a 612 00:40:23.599 --> 00:40:28.800 roller coaster and until you've been out the other side, like until you've had 613 00:40:28.840 --> 00:40:32.880 an exit, it all seems shit, like every test it's awful. I 614 00:40:32.920 --> 00:40:37.320 think like it's like it's just because you just never know. Right, like 615 00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:39.320 you're making all these sacrifices and you're like, is this really worth it? 616 00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:44.840 I haven't been paid in for years, like it's gonna go anywhere, and 617 00:40:44.960 --> 00:40:47.440 so, like in hindsight, my thing is is just like when you've come 618 00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:52.119 out the other end, you understand like it's very cyclical, like the highs 619 00:40:52.119 --> 00:40:53.360 are always it going to be high, the lows are always going to be 620 00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:57.280 super, Super Low, but if you just hang in there and keep going, 621 00:40:57.320 --> 00:41:00.119 I mean you'll get there. So that's something I always tell everybody. 622 00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:02.800 Love that. Love that piece of advice. It's great. It's great, 623 00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:06.639 Jackie. This has been so much fun. Thank you so much for your 624 00:41:06.679 --> 00:41:08.159 time. Thank you so much for having me my guts. been such a 625 00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:12.639 pleasure. And there you have it. It was awesome time with Jackie. 626 00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:15.599 I highly recommend following her on twitter at Jackie fast. If you enjoyed this 627 00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:19.480 episode, I love it if you'd write a review in the apple podcast. 628 00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:22.159 You're also welcome to follow me your host, Mike, on twitter at Mike 629 00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:27.679 Guelb, and also follow for episode announcements at Consumer VC. Thanks for listening, 630 00:41:27.679 --> everyone,