Transcript
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Hello and welcome to the consumer VC. I am your host, Michael,
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and on this show we talked about
the world adventure capital and innovation in both
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consumer technology and consumer products. If
you're enjoying this content, you could subscribe
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to my newsletter, the consumer VC
DOT sub stackcom, to get each new
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episode and more consumer news delivered straight
to your inbox. Our guest today is
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Joe Markese, who is a serial
entrepreneur and has also started a few VC
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funds, including human ventures, Kasa, coomos, groundswell, true x reserve
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and attention capital. I'll be honest, his resume is pretty wild. Joe
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Has so much experience within marketing advertising, so on today's episode we're going to
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focus how to approach marketing channels,
what channels are still undervalued that you maybe
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you can get more bang for your
buck, and his approach to building brands
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and partner with exceptional entrepreneurs. Without
further ADO, here's Joe. Joe,
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thank you so much for joining me. How are you? I'm great.
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How are you doing well? Thank
you doing well. So you've had a
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pretty interesting career. How did you
get your start? First of all in
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media and advertising. It's funny,
by accident and probably be the best best
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way to say it. I know
I worked at a MONSTERCOM and if you
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think about like job boards back in
the day, this is like two thousand
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and two, two thousand and one
job boards are just advertising jobs, right.
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So it was kind of advertising to
begin with, and it was when
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monster was disrupting that the whole job
search space and was one of the biggest
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advertisers and then went on to do
some consulting and kind of at that time,
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my space was was one of the
biggest publishers in the world, and
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that was it's really funny that we're
in a web three world now where everyone's
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like the community, the community,
the community, and we stumbled across this
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idea that like, why can't the
people who are on my space like get,
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you know, earned something for the
advertisings on their page? And so
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that was that was how we got
into advertising, but it was really through
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kind of tech startup world got it. So almost as well, maybe a
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little more of like a UGC type
of way in terms of how you just
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thought about advertising and maybe ahead of, you know, the whole kind of
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creator economy which is right now,
you know, very top of mine for
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people. You were already kind of
thinking about this way back in the early
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S. Yeah, we but,
like, like they say, being early
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is worse than being wrong most of
the time, because then you have conviction
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and you and you're still wrong.
So that's sure. That was better.
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So you have this idea back in, I guess you early two thousands.
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That was a a your start into
advertising. Where did you kind of go
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with that? And like the early
kind of web to point out spot we
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develop we're coming called social vibe for
a long time that basically did focus on
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that, where every publisher of Myce
this page could put up their own brand
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badges and like they were getting sponsored
right like any athlete or celebrity could,
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and then they'd earned points for charity. That was the original concept. And
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then comes along kind of the farm
build days, where you could earn points
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or credits for engaging with you know, there was there was a lot of
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stuff before us, but will we
brought to it was engage of the brand
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and earn your farm credits. And
the real idea there was what was novel
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was just on demand advertising, like
like you didn't need interruptive advertising. Why
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couldn't you go to what was then
called for farm, build the offer wall,
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engage with Cocacola and Nike and neck
and Lexis and then go back and
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play your game instead of in game
advertise. And so that was I mean
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I think that was the most novel
part of it, and then that taking
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that tech later, after spending some
time in TV world, and applying it
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fully to television is kind of is
where true x came from, and that
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was a company that I sold,
the twenty per century Fox. Your's here,
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lunchepreter. You found in many companies. was that always your ambition growing
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up? Did you always think that
one day, oh, you were going
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to be an entrepreneur, or did
you kind of just know he as a
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phrase but kind of like fell into
it just based off of the C curiosity?
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When I was a kid, I
wanted to be a bank teller because
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that because they had all the money
back there. That was I'm still remember
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opening my first bank account and going
in and being like this, I looks
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like the job for me back there. I went to school and I would
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have gone to school for Philosophy,
except for I found out that that doesn't
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have a lot of paying careers that
that I would have liked afterwards. So
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I did economics and finance, and
that's because economics is the closest thing the
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philosophy of money. So I guess
I kind of I really got interested in
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what motivates people to do things,
and it's funny when you think about it
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that way, economics and advertising aren't
all that different in that like you're trying
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to figure out people's motivations and then
and then work against yeah, absolutely,
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if it's all about incentives and really
understanding. The question that we always ask
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on the show is why? Why
do people buy what they buy? MMM,
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and how that can be actually pretty
irrational and not really rational. What
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do you think is still maybe,
since you've worked obviously online, with with
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all my advertising, as we well
as you know LINEAR TV and TV advertising,
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what maybe advertising channel? Do you
think this still may be under appreciated
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by brands or entrepreneurs of today?
I think an easy way to think about
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it is that facebook, Google,
Amazon, the performance marketers of today had
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convinced everybody if you can't measure it, don't buy it, which makes me
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think everything that's hard to measure is
undervalued. So then think about what's really
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hard to measure. Billboards out of
home. Hard to measure. Disclosure.
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I'm on the Board of Clear Channel
Billboard Company, but I do it because
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I think that it's just such an
amazing medium. You know, podcasts not
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playing with the home crowd here.
But like hard to measure, highly effective
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sponsorship just in general is is hard
to measure and highly effective. Right.
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So, like just I think there's
a category and I we talked to a
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lot of startups. I think there's
sixty five plus now the human portfolio.
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Some we spend a lot of time
when thinking about brand and this leap from
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performance marketing to test out a concept
to brand building where you're going quote unquote,
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above the line buying a billboard.
How do I know if it works
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right? Well, I've got bad
years for you. It's going to be
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a lot tougher than you think.
Like anyone who gives you an easy answer
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is gas lighting you a bit as
too, as to what the outcomes are
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going to be. And I think
that's that's kind of the insight in the
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last couple of years spending time with
with startups, making the leap from okay,
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I can test it out and performance
channels, but now I need to
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build a brand over time, and
so I think those are the underappreciated channels,
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which are the hard to measure ones. Yeah, that makes that sense.
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Do you even think, though,
like now, maybe they're even more
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underappreciated since we're in this kind of
age of Covid and I think what's top
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of mind is, Oh, what
our consumers are home? Oh, there
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consuming so much media, so we
got to pump more money into performance marketing
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instead of maybe these other areas like
billboards, like, oh, people aren't
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driving because they don't go to work. Or do you think that right now
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is even more kind of under appreciated
than before? Yes, and but I
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mean I look, obviously in the
height of covid it was fairly like that.
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People aren't out of home as much. But I think for sure,
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I don't know if it's so much
that the believe it's big agencies. They
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know where people are, they've got
they've got their medium mixed modeling that they
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understand, like things are working.
So like the same thing with television,
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like the GRP share of each network
sets like eighty percent of how much money
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they're going to get and then everything
else was around the edges. So I
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don't think they're under appreciated for that. I think they're. I think the
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they're undervalued because the performance marketers are
getting an unfair share of the total pie,
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because they know who's going to be
most likely to buy a product and
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then they get everyone is in a
rush to try to get attribution for one
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that product gets bought and because of
that you have a stuffing of the bottle,
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of the funnel and an overinvestment there
and so therefore the share of pie
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at the top for these. Again, I hate to say upper funnel,
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because someone could see a billboard and
go buy something. It's just not as
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connected. Right, it's. But
that's not the point, right. It's
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not the only one. There's a
great blog that had read a while back
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that advertising doesn't work like that,
all right, and the idea was that
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the way brands are built or is
building social currency. I don't want to
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advertise just to the people who buy
my brand, or I don't want people
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to just the people who buy my
brand to know what my brand is,
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because otherwise people can't talk about it
and the so like. So all those
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wasted impressions that are getting negotiat away
weren't really wasted if you're building a brand.
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It reminds me just of a conversation
I have with Brett Thomas. He's
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one of the general partners at Cavoo
and I think he came from like the
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Hedge Fund world and wanted to was
very much interested in investing the startups and
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what his value add was billboards.
He knew someone, I forget if it
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was a filmy friend or one of
his friends, that owned billboard sites and
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always had maybe like a little bit
of leftover mentory, and so he his
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value ad would be, hey for
brands, hey, let's put you on
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his billboard since there's a bit of
leftover inventory and we can do it at
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discount. And it was this one
vodka brand and they got they put one
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in New York one of Miami,
and sales actually soared pretty well and that
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was the only like offline marketing channel
that they did. If you think about
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some of the most traditional of TV
advertising and you and you look at the
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businesses that have been built on it, like you know the fact that my
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little guy can build a whatever,
multimillion dollar business with the pillow brand.
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Like just going through the oldest channels
makes you think for a second there that
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if some of the entrepreneurs that we
know, we're kind of tackling that and
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like looking at those channels differently,
it be a real opportunity. How else
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do you think about? Me just
in terms of traditional channels, like,
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obviously dependent on the brand, but
like superule ads or adds, for I
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know the Oscars are down now and
then have been for this couple of years,
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but even for the Emmy, you
know, the Oscars and what have
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you. Do you think of that
is still worth it? Oh Yeah,
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for sure, events like that.
It's oil. You can turn it into
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jet fuel are you can turn it
into sludge right like you have to refine
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it into something. This is the
problem with media right now, which is
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like is it worth it to buy
a super bowl at I don't know.
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It depends on what you put in
it. If you put something in there
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that like. So the hardest part
about thinking about media and each channel as
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a partner in helping to build a
brand is that they probably work with more
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than one brand. In your sector. I know, like NBC works with
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Toyota and Chrysler and Ford. They're
only offering up a chance to talk to
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the audience then, like how do
you price the car? Ninety percent plus
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is the product, the price,
the the creative that goes in there.
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So there's so much more to it. That doesn't mean that the or the
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the channel is good or not.
Now I would definitely argue that the super
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bowl is like because of its rarity. Is is incredibly value. I think
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I want kind of issue to challenge. I would be willing to bet that,
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like there's not a digital platform on
earth that could deliver with the Super
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Bowl delivers, and even if you
gave them a month. And what I
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mean by that is that the Super
Bowl is guaranteeing, you near guaranteeing.
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Will see how many people, because
people's actually sit in our attentive during the
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commercials. Like one hundred million US
households with multiple people per household glued to
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the TV. It takes up the
entirety of the screen and a place for
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thirty seconds right. Think about what
you'd have to do to get one hundred
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million uniques for the full screen for
all thirty seconds with the sound on.
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I mean facebook could do of like
a home page takeover for everyone who comes
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to facebook and what they've played through. Would Youtube do that where they force
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everyone who comes to youtube to go
through. It is a such a huge
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number and it's impossible. Now you
better have a product that is really,
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really valuable and you're going to like
a creative that works. Otherwise, know
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you're you're going to light a lot
of money on fire. If you have
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the product that works and you've got
the right message, it's it's one of
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a kind for a reason. I
think also with anything this I mean definitely
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the Super Bowl for sure, as
the center point, but even with anything
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that's non digital, non non kind
of growth marketing, the perception of the
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brand is also much bigger than maybe
the brand actually is. If here a
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small brand and you get on a
billboard, makes you look a lot more
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legitimate or bigger maybe than you are
versus, you know, a facebook add
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because you know facebook guys are cheap. There's really not a lot of friction
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there. It's kind of a lot
of like Meta signaling, not to use
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metaph as, facebook metas and the
original meeting of Meta but like, you
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know, the face again to work. But like, I don't know that
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everyone else is seeing that. I
just know I'm the only one seeing that
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and I don't know if that's just
targeted at me. And when I see
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a billboard, I know everyone around
me sees that met understanding or Meta signaling
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that this wow, okay, they're
legitimate because that's going to be there for
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any that has its own value beyond
what the message that goes on it.
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And that's true in television. It's
true in a thirty second spot. It's
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true. I mean people can see
kind of a a value of a spot
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beyond what the message is, like
what it must have cost to get there
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and to produce the spot and then
the message. So it's like so that
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you get this kind of other value, but it's dangerous because it does cost
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money. So if you do all
that and then the message doesn't deliver or
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the price and product aren't good,
they they used to say nothing kills bad
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products faster than good marketing. I
think that's more true now is people are
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thinking about it. How did you
start human adventures? Well, I met
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Heather heartnet, who's the CEO and
kind of founder of it, and at
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the time I had twenty one cent
try facts bought the company might cot me,
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Trux, and I was going there
because I wanted to, you know,
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go work in television and and understanding
at a larger scale, like we're
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advertising was headed for the largest advertising
medium at the time. And but heather
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and I've been talking for a while
about how Buy New York City is such
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a fantastic place to found companies,
but how hard it is to found a
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company in New York City because there's
so many other industries here. There's media
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and fashion and finance, and so
you get lost. So we wanted to
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do a different type of startup studio
and so I was just heather's first backer,
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you know, her cofounder, but
I worked I went to then go
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work at Fox and had they're built
human ventures in the studio with kind of
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a different model. We used to
have a code like this person's a good
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human. If we put that in
an email, than the other person had
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to take the meeting. That's where
the name human ventures came from. It's
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also it's really cool. What do
you think is maybe, as you've obviously
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worked with a lot of Otrepreters,
what do you think maybe is some of
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the most difficult part from kind of
going from the year two one, or
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maybe is kind of misunderstood from founders, I mean the zero two ones really
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interesting because you know, people talk
about there's different types there there's conviction investing
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and there's team and Tam investing team
in total just from market. When you're
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zero two one, you're really team
and Tam because truthfully, every idea that
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a founder has on day zero is
probably going to change six months in.
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I can't even imagine the number of
business plans that I've seen the first version
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and that was what the business was, because that means that the founder is
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an adaptable they haven't recognized changes in
the market, they haven't learned anything along
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the way. So is zero two
ones that then take a break from like,
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I don't know, make it up
one to fifty, right, and
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in that one hundred and fifty the
founders really just going to be adaptable and
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try to find product market fit.
But then it gets hard again going from
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fifty to a hundred. And that
fifty to a hundred is is what you
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were talking about when, okay,
performance marketings topped out. I know I've
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got product market fit, but now
I need to scale a brand that matters
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and like I need to not be
not up be dependent on performance marketing.
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And so I think those are the
likes almost like a bar belt where we
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could help at the zero two one
and then the fifty to a hundred with
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founders in the consumer market. Just
like in any of the market, when
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we're talking to zero to one,
the two biggest questions are like why now
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and why you like, like if
you just assume every idea has been had,
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like people are saying, I'm going
to win because the ideas novel,
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like we to make sure no one
known knows about it. That's not why
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you win. You win because,
like right now, something's different in the
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world. Direct consumers is emerging.
There's a fourth tier in the alcohol ecosystem,
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that is the drizzlies and mini bars
and go puffs of the world.
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There's a facebook advertising allows you to
to avtest message and quicker. That's the
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why now. Then the Hyu is, like what are you going to do?
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That's different than the ten other people
at least that have had this idea?
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Right, because there has been and
the answer usually to that is in
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consumer especially, like there's these natural
modes like for alcohol, its production and
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importing, licensing, route to mark, distribution, route to market, all
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of these things are difficult to kind
of get through and almost frustrations to someone
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who wants to just, you know, start a digital company with two people
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and have a billion users. But
once you do it, once you do
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do the regulatory part and once you
get through the the operations and logistics,
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then the best product and best brand
wins, right, and that's and that's
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what that's a really fun part to
be at on the other side. So
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so looking for people who are going
to be the hyu on that operator side.
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They know you also look at food
and beverage or CPG brands. Does
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the product have to be differentiated in
order for you to be, you know,
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interested? Yes, it's going to
sound kind of trite that, like
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the products got to be great,
right, it's got to be really really
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it's a high quality like we do
believe in kind of the premiumization of everything,
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even low cost items being made better. We're kind of think that that's
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important and that the founder has some
sort of like we're not a spreadsheet consumer
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products investor, right, like Oh, look, this, this markets underinvested
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in, and then this as great
margin, and then a great let's find
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a product in that space. That's
that we're much more on a founder that
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is that wants to craft something like
unique to the market and like that will
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be easier to market later. But
I mean I'll use commost Tequila as an
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example, like Richard Bet's is a
former master smiley a like. I mean
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just like the taste is we knew
craftsmanship wouldn't be the problem and that makes
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your marketing work harder because they only
need to get people to try it once,
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right, it's a lot better than
having to like remarket over and over
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and over again to people. So
I guess we look for a kind of
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some pride of craftsmanship in in it, and so if that's the unique factor,
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is pride of craftsmanship, then I
think that's that's enough. No,
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yeah, yeah, I guess it
kind of goes back to your original point
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of backing founders. And what is
the actual overall that revision or what they
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actually are changing bringing to the actual
category itself? That's quite different, right.
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Yeah, absolutely, and I you
know, I think tiny organics,
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which is it is finger food for
babies and like helping them develop their first
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is that they cared so much about
taste profiles for babies and why this was
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important, and like that was before
they got to okay, now we got
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to get to product market fit and
like that, they knew where they wanted
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to go from the very beginning and
and that was that. That was a
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big deal. Yeah, I mean
huge, huge fan of what they're building.
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I had them on the show and
they're they're great. They're great,
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love them. That's easy. Via. Since there's as so much talk about
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just media in general, what do
you think is still may be misunderstood about
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media today? I still think we
talked about the biggest thing overinvestment, like
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the bottom of the funnel stuffed and
you're not going to scale at it.
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So just like your early indicators are
not going to be where your brand will
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be over time or where your custom
marketing cost customer requisition will be over time.
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But I also think the bigger thing
about media is that the attention economy
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is is pretty broken. And what
I mean by attention economy mean theoretically,
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advertising is the price that people pay
for the ability to borrow your attention.
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Right that that's supposed to be what
it is, but there's so many impressions
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out there, there's so many,
you know, listicles, there's so many
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like impressions that don't work and everyone
thinks that okay, let's fine. That's
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that's priced in to the market and
that's why I only buy on Rli.
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And so with that, you know, there is Hbo Max, Hulu,
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Ad Free, Netflix, Disney plus, you know, even though it says
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it's going to come with advertising,
it doesn't yet. So there's more ways
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to watch content without adds than ever
before. Right, AD blockers, right,
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Hulu as are youtube bread, like
there's just so many ways to watch
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content of that adds. And if
you look every quarter there's more ad impressions
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in the world. Like I don't
know how that's happened. Like I would
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give my right arm if there are
more ad impressions in the world today than
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there were, you know, two
years ago. It just it doesn't add
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up. And so with that it
makes me feel like there's something fundamentally kind
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of broken in the market and there's
a really interesting opportunity unity to kind of
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just buy media a little bit smarter. And I guess in terms of buy
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media bit smarter, this is more
so like use like offline channels per se,
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right online too. But like,
but what are you measuring right,
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like are you measuring for an impression? Right, and using, example,
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pretty consistently, which is again people
keep basically good impression, bad impression.
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That's not what I'm measuring. Like
I'm measuring for R lie, and that's
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great, but there's a lot of
things that work towards your Roi. Working.
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Is your product good or you did
you price it right? Is the
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right audience? Did they do anything
to do touch them any other way,
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through a newsletter, through a podcast, through a sponsorship? So, like
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you know, let's just let's just
at least concede the fact that multi touch
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attribution is very hard to do,
and the people who are going to get
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the most credit of the people who
can reverse engineer who's going to purchase your
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product. So let's let's start there. And you say, okay, so
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I would do want to buy disp
there is a world where there's there are
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video ads out there and display ads
and and sponsorship of podcast and and influence
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our marketing and there's all these things. But what you should be optimizing for
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in each channel is likelihood of attention. Like it did someone see this because,
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like you know, an impression,
a viewable impression, could load on
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the page for one second in the
bottom corner, and that counts is one
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viewable impression, or the impression could
be on the page for thirty seconds and
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that counts. Is One viewable impression, or could take up the whole page
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for twenty seconds. That could be
a viewable impression. Or an influencer could
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you know, it could start a
thing but not finish and that could count
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as an impression. And so you
look at this rolled up world of the
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metrics and and they're not the metrics
that matter and instead be thinking about,
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okay, if I owned this media
channel, like if I owned this podcast
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network, if I owned this influencer
network, if these this was my high
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house, what would I ask them
to do, like with my brand and
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product? And then, like,
how do I measure the metrics that matter
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beyond the ones that are easily gamed, like if I add a new banner?
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So, if I had a website
and I had a hundred thousand visitors
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to that website every month, right, I have one banner on it to
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start with. I have a hundred
thousand impressions to sell. If I add
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a second banner to that website,
I have two hundred thousand impressions to sell.
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I didn't add more time, attention
or consumer spending to the world.
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I just added more impressions to the
world. We're not correlating what's highly effective
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with people, with with what you
really want to buy as a consumer marketer.
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That's really interesting, especially on the
impression sided to as you say,
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well, what actually is that impression
really doing? Is that just like a
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split second? That account as an
impression, or is that actually, you
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know, a full screen, you
know, thirty two add what exactly is
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that? Instead of just kind of
bunching them all together and just saying,
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you know, this is how many
the total impressions you have? Is it
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a native newsletter integration where you know
it? Like email marketing, incredibly hard
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to measure. If you measure email
marketing only by clickthroughs to your, you
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know, mattress company, you're not
measuring it the right way. So the
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question of each channel, knowing that
you have to have a point of view
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and a belief. As long as
I'm I can measure, what does matter?
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Meaning reach, association, brand favorability. Context. I mean, I
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think context is going to be a
huge thing. Right now we've we've overswung
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the audience, audience, audience,
and I think we're going to swing back
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to quality of attention and context in
which your brand is sitting, meaning like
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what's the content surrounding it? You're
also one of the founders Catholic couples brands
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group tell people about about them and
in terms of how you actually build brands.
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At Hatha, Richard Bet's is the
pro typical founder who is a form
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master Somalia, an amazing craftsman,
passionate about the craft of making. He'd
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been he's been making Tequila Down Amexo
for twenty years. We knew the product
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would be absolutely amazing. And then
how do you differentiate it? And so
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they marketing. It's way too much
credit when things work and way too much
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blame when it doesn't, which is
it's kind of funny that it really does
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hit both sides. And so this, you know, the brands on fire,
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but that's because once people taste it
they're like, oh my God,
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this is really good. I will
say the brand decisions that made it stand
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out for Comos was that it would
be unique right, that we would be
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luxury first, not trying to be
something that that we're not. There really
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is focused in on this idea of
blending the heritage and the making of Tequila,
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which is has to be done in
the Tequila region of Mexico. You
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cannot be made any place but the
Tequila region. It's like champagne. But
385
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then saying we're going to have a
kind of a global mindset, an appeal
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for the brand and make it unique
and stand out, and then when people
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taste it they'll don't understand. And
so that was that was the brand decision
388
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that went into that. And there's
a bunch of Easter eggs inside of it.
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The bottle looks different than everything else
in a kind of a sea of
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Sameness. But none of that would
have mattered if the first time you took
391
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a sip of it it wasn't different. Right. So, like the quality
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wasn't there. And so I think
we made some amazing brand decisions with it
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and we're we do a lot of
pretty interesting marketing. We were in the
394
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Oscars on Sunday night. But that
only makes sense to do because people will
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remember it, notice it and then
when they do trial it, it's amazing
396
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as if so, otherwise we would
have just been burning money. What's one
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00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:26.839
book? Then it's inspired you personally, one book that inspired you professionally?
398
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I don't know. If I draw
on line between the personal and professional,
399
00:24:30.680 --> 00:24:33.839
I'll kind of say two types of
books I like the most to think about
400
00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:37.960
our like kind of physics, origins
of biology and like it's how interesting things
401
00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:41.799
are. They're really really small and
really really large. I loved Einstein's dreams,
402
00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:44.680
but I just finished, I can
look right now, just finished the
403
00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:48.720
book by Allen Lightman, his new
one that I like, probable and possibilities,
404
00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:51.200
and it's just, you know,
it takes kind of takes like a
405
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:56.440
philosophy like and kind of poetic writing
over the top of really advanced physics and
406
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so some of the stuff is way
over my head, but enough of it
407
00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:02.519
gives you so much to think about
that I really enjoy it. And the
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same thing the other one is life's
edge, and that's kind of talks about
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like what it means to be alive
and these like ideas of like how biology
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like like what makes us up,
where we came from, and they're just
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like that. That to me,
it gets me out of constantly thinking about
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the business side of things. I
do think time is a very like times
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as the construct in all of both
life and physics, and time is what
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I know. I would equate to, you know, attention, like like
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what we spend our time doing,
what we spend our time buying, like
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where we where we spend our time
going. These are the most valuable choices
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we make, and so I guess
they're only tangential to business, but I
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when I'm reading or listening to something
like to like to cut out of the
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business world. You're very original.
We haven't had anyone bring up these books.
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Oh really exited added to a reading
list. That's great. My Pot
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of question is what's the best piece
of advice that you've received? I can't
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remember set it to me, but
I remember very early on, another founder,
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and this has got to be you
know, you're talking fifteen years ago
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00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:02.799
plus, said things aren't as bad
as you think they are and they're not
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as good as you think they are, like every day, every single day,
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and no matter how good you think
things are, they're not that good.
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In no matter how bad things are, there not that bad and the
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roller coaster of kind of that feeling
and like the person said it to me
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and I heard it and I just
didn't internalize it and now I look back
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years later and I try to give
that advice to founders. You can say
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00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:23.319
it, but until you realize now
it's really, you know, they're steady.
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There's tomorrow. You're going to get
after it, and deaf. You
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know. The other one that's going
to sound a little kind of funny,
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which is like people really don't think
about you that much. Like people are
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like, oh, they're trying to
kill my business and like all this competitors
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00:26:34.759 --> 00:26:37.640
coming after me, or Oh,
this this channel partner doesn't want me in,
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00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:41.680
but like most of the time they're
not thinking about you. It's really
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00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:45.920
it's really not malicious, like you
the if you want to feel maybe this
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00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:48.720
ties to the physics books of like
how small we are and it all it
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00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:52.480
makes you feel better, like it's
really no one's thinking about you that much,
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00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:55.200
and so that that gets you out
of thinking that people are thinking bad
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00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:57.079
things about you. Joe, thank
you so much for your time. This
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is so much funch atting. Yeah, Samon, here you have it.
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It was amazing chatting with Joe.
I hope you all enjoyed that. I
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00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:08.039
highly recommend following Joe on twitter at
Joe Markesey. If you enjoyed this episode,
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00:27:08.200 --> 00:27:11.799
I love it if you'd read a
review on the apple podcast. You're
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00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:15.440
also welcome to follow me your host, Mike, on twitter at Mike Guelb,
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00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:18.960
and also follow for episode announcements at
Consumer VC. Thanks for listening, everyone,
