Transcript
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Hello and welcome to the consumer VC. I am your host, Michael but
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and on this show we talked about
the world of venture capital and innovation in
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both consumer technology and consumer products.
If you're enjoying this content, you could
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subscribe to by newsletter the consumer VC
DOT sub stackcom, to get each new
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episode and more consumer news delivered straight
to your inbox. Our guest today is
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Matt Nichols, founder of Commerce ventures. Commerce ventures backs entrepreneurs from every background,
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building the infrastructure for tomorrow's industries.
So of their investments include shop talk,
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trow Simon and retail. Next in
this episode, Matt and I focus
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our time deconstructing web three and seen
how web three can be impactful to brands
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and change retail. Without further Redo, here's Matt. Matt, thank you
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so much for joining me here today. How are you doing? Well,
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sad to be here? No,
I really appreciate it. So how'd you
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heat your start inventor capital? So
my first job at of college was actually
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invest in banking. I had Morgan
Stanley kind of the height of the first
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Internet boom. So I joined Morgan
stanleys toeck group in one thousand nine hundred
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and ninety nine. So I spent
a couple of years doing kind of tech
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invest in banking through the boom and
then I initial bust and then actually had
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the opportunity to the jump in a
more Stanley venture partners which was more in
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Stanley's in house bench capital arm,
which is really where learned vegue capital in
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the early two thousand and SI looking
valley. That's where I started. That's
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really cool. It's really cool at
what was the inspiration behind commerce VC?
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So it was started by my partner
Dan, who had worked to get we'd
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were together at highland capital for for
many years out of Boston, and really
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the Vision for the fund was twofold
one that sector focus funds that were really
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attractive way to differentiate oneself in the
market where there's more and more vech capitalists.
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So having a sector focus really made
sense. And our specific focus on
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commerce technology, broadly retail attack Infintech, just had a belief that how consumers
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were shopping, how they're paying for
things and the whole fintach ecosystem, we're
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all changing at a pretty rapid rate
and that building a sector focus venture fund
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focused on kind of how people,
we like to say how they shop,
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spend, save and secure their assets. We called the commerce continuum and really
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everything we've done since that has been
focused on that focus. We always attracted
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by those specific verticals itself before you're
investing. Yes, so actually even before
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the fund was started, the two
of US had been focusing on those two
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areas independently inside of another venure capital
firm. So Dan was investing in Fintach
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early on and I is investing in
Commerce next generation players and in the commerce
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space. So we were sort of
initially doing that another venture firm. So
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it was pretty obvious to bring that
over to the new fund. Why do
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you think that right now we're such
an interesting place when it comes to technological
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innovation that could be disruptive for retail? There's a couple different reasons. One,
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I think some of the standardization of
retail platforms, whether it's shopify or
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field force, commerce cloud or something, you know, both from the Monolithic
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to kind of the next shot aheadless
players, has really allowed retailers to utilize
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an off the shelf platform and then
add all kinds of really exciting tools and
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technology that can really plug in pretty
seamlessly, whereas if you were to rewind
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ten years plus. Anytime you're starting
to trying to sell a new technology and
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too a retailer brand, there's a
huge amount of immigration and and challenges associated
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with adopting those. So think there's
one is a sort of technology challenge and
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to just an increasing pressure to compete
with the likes of Amazon and others,
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and that has been there forever and
I think what's exciting now is your ability
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to build a brand or a retailer. It's just much easier from a technological
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perspective. I was lots of other
challenges, but at least at that this
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point, technology is enabled those next
generation brands retailers to be launched and at
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a speed which you just couldn't do
before. Yeah, so I mean I
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totally agree with you instantly that.
We certainly talk a lot about mom this
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show, about how it's easier than
ever to maybe start a brand online or
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do experience, obviously with the infrastructure
that we have now with shopify, with
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itwus and as well as Amazon.
where, then, do you see the
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opportunity that, since it is so
much easier to launch and brands Ali,
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where do you think on the infrastructure
side of things, they're kind of looking
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at those a whole munch different categories
that we think are really exciting. You
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know, one, I would say
is is sort of recommerce and the use
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good space, using the sort of
explosion of consumers adopting that model. And
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we believe, you know, the
first generation of that was may of these
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market places, whether it's the real
real or posh mark or others. We're
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seeing now and increasing interest from retailers
and brands to get into that space.
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So finding ways, if I'm a
big retailer, remote wellknown brand, you
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know, how do I participate in
this, use good economy and find ways
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to offer those offerings to my consumers, not just have them transact with my
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products on someone else's platform. So
with you folks like kind of going to
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little lemon and arc terics and levies
and many others are now embracing that trend
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and find ways to serve their customers, given that there is that need for
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you is good. So I think
that's a big category of interest. I
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would say another is sort of the
next generation of I was the headless platforms
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for commerce. So you get the
big model with both Pill for Scommerce,
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cloud and and shopify on the lower
end, but I think we're seeing.
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If you are a big retail or
brand, you need more flexibility than those
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platforms can provide, but you also
don't want to build from scratch. So
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the launch of these headless platforms,
and I'll your ability to change the front
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and change the back end, pull
out your inventory system, pull out your
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check out is more excited it's ever
been before. So people kind of get
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the best of best of both world, which is in off the shell platform,
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but get to customize in the way
that makes sense for their business.
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And then I think the third era
that we're spending a lot of time in
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is sort of blockchain and crypto and
how that intersects with with retail. Obviously
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lots of hype in the market in
those areas, but we think that there
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are some big opportunities for blockchain and
Crypto to do some things in retail that
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are both exciting to consumers and and
potentially they happen in the near term.
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First of all, thanks so much
for stun I really like those three maybe
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macro categories or just whether you're thinking
about when it comes to helping brands and
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also helping a customers. Just think
about the commerce landscape within blockchain. It's
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kind of interesting intersection between botching retail, block chain and payments. Where do
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you think are some of the big
opportunities and how does that customer experience,
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especially like in store experience, may
be changed due to blockchain? Our Lens
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has been what if of the real
practical applications? What could retailers, your
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brands mutilize today? And those are
the where we spent most of our time.
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I think there's some far out things
that one could imagine, but I
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think we spend more of our time
in sort of the here and now.
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I think a couple different categories.
So one is clearly authentication. It actually
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relates back to that use good focus
that I had. I think there's a
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really interesting use case for NFT's and
the blockchain generally for authentication of goods,
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particularly high priced goods, which give
consumers two things, not only sort of
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a link to a digital identity of
this product. That could be for authenticity,
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it could be for understanding where the
product was made, but also give
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you a digital certificate could that can
then make that the transacting of that product
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in the secondary market that much more
secure and easy for for consumer. So
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I think authentication is a big category
that is happening today. Obviously, two
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of the creation of digital goods,
so virtual products that are generated either as
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sort of a digital twin to a
physical good or brand new digital goods.
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It just live in the metaverse,
live in gaming. I think there's some
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big opportunities there a little bit earlier
stage, because I think the challenge there,
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and we can go into a little
more details around so the interoperability in
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the bubility to bring interesting digital goods
into platforms where consumers are already interacting with
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a little bit challenging. But I
think we'll see that. And I think
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the third most interesting categories around customer
loyalty and if you think about sort of
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the ethos of web three, where
those who participate early in a community get
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the benefit of that community over time, I think this really interesting application of
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that for early stage brands where certain
consumers or advocates can have an outside impact
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on that brand and how do you
give them the value for being an early
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advocate of growing a brand? So
those are a couple of the most interesting
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categories that were folks on today.
No, I mean yeah, totally.
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I'm always curious about customer loyalty mean. What do you think has been broken?
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Might be the wrong term, but
in the web to era or just,
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I guess, custoer loyalty as we
see it now. What do you
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think really changes that the website can
really add towards customer loyalty systems, specifically,
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that could really help retailers and brands? I think you know loyalty in
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the web to and before era filery
transaction right, maybe as you get a
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discount for something or you're building up
some dollar points that you can then redeem
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over time and it just feels very
transactional. I think what web three does
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or could do as relates to loyalty
and brands is remaking consumers feel like they're
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a part of the community, part
of the company and they really have a
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vested upside in those companies being successful. So, incause all the the web
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tookit use cases you make a discount
or a credit, but if that brand
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really takes off, you're no better
off than you were before. So I
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think that's where the real real opportunity
is, and we've seen this even in
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other applications. We should have the
company called bumped that enables stock rewards for
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big in a public companies which can
deuce has some of the same dynamic,
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because what they found, others have
found, is if you have believe that
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you were an owner of a business
in some way, shape or form,
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you were an act in different ways. We're almost regardless of the amount of
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ownership you have, and I think
web three gives you a much more,
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much lighter weight version of doing that, rather than trying to dolot equity to
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everything, the consumer who buys a
product from your shop by store. So
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I think it's really that sense of
community and the set of unbounded upside that
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you might have if you are an
early consumer advocate of a brand, that
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really takes off. I know that
your focus, obviously, correct me if
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I'm wrong. Your focus is not
invest in the brands themselves but more like
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the underlying technology. But could you
see a world where brands actually pool,
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they be part of their cap table
towards token, or or maybe be it's
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a Dow for like the early community
members, maybe the early customers that were
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very excited about the brand coming into
existence? Yeah, I think. I
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think there is opportunity to do that
and whether it's pool across brands or just
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you know using tokens is the way
to fund the business at the early days.
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From these the advocates, I think
there's definitely an opportunity there. Obviously
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there's some security laws and such that
one has to be careful with if you're
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trying to do some of those things
right. But but short of that,
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yes, I think there's a big
opportunity. I think brands today, if
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you were to start a brand of
date, given your inability to really target
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the way you used to on facebook
or other platforms, there's going to need
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to be another driver of customer acquisition
and this could be a pretty powerful one.
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Yeah, absolutely, because we talked
about I feel like maybe the Buzzword
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of two thousand and twenty one was
community. In my opinion, partially or
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maybe the reason why that brands were
talking so much about community was because,
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and we talked about this song on
the show a lot and you just brought
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it up, about how facebook ads, the Arbor targe opportunities are really no
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more and so you have to find
other ways at the very small stages in
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order to grow where you maybe have
a two high CPAS, where it actually
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makes sense to grow on a facebook, for example, as a good marketing
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agency, and so this, as
you say, it could be a way
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in order to obviously reward people for
for being customers, but then to participate
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the upside and they maybe further incentivize
them to be part of the brand or
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really being part of the community.
Yeah, I totally believe that and I
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think the community unity will be at
the heart of customer requisition. And historically
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all you got was a sort of
good feeling for participating this community, but
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really didn't get me the upside and
the world where you have that good feeling
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of participating in the proud like view
of being associated with this brand that grows,
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but add on an economic value onto
it. I think it just makes
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that much more powerful. No,
totally backing up a little bit. I
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know that when you were thinking about
different opportunities on this kind of retail and
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blockchain intersection, and the one that
you brought up was the opportunity may be
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produce a double good and having a
digital asset may be an nnft version of
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the physical asset when, especially when
it comes to luxury products. How do
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you also think about how maybe brands
and also obviously the interlying technology, if
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it's they're or not for partnerships to
participate in different, you know, online
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platforms, so they're nft or unique
digital good could be featured in a particular
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game or, you know, something
that they actually participate online in. I
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would start first, like first principles, which is, does one believe that
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people are going to want to have
digital versions of their most beloved brands inside
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of a online community? And I
think the answer to that is almost definitively
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yes. Right, whether it's you
know, is my kids on roblocks,
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if they could have some cool like
Nike shoes, they would absolutely spend their
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allowance to go try to get those. And I think, and whether it's
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on you know, the Meta versus
Games, even just by digital social media,
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the ability to show off your physical
goods in a digital world, I
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think is almost surely going to be
a thing. So if you believe that,
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and he's okay, what's the path
to getting there? And I think
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the only reason that I this has
not exploded faster I believe that the places
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where people spend their digital time today
are largely closed, especially the sort of
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Meta verses which are, you know, the gaming platforms, and the ability
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to get digital product in those gaming
platforms is pretty much blocked by whoever the
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publisher of that game is. And
I'll see. If you, you know,
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you listen to Meta their belief is
they're going to build a huge metaverse,
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and I think others are on that
too. I suspect that those Meta
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verses will be much more open and
which case this is barrier that is historically
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stop products from getting into these games
that are largely closed, will start to
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go away. But I think that's
the oning that's stopping this from happening.
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You know, it's a little bit
cumbersome for brands to get their products into
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digital spaces, but I think we
will see that change relatively quickly because I
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think consumers want it and it's a
great thing for brands. When you think
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about the future of and maybe you
hinted at it, but when you think
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about the future of the metavers maybe
first of all baby should back up and
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just say what is the Meta verse
and then, as a follow up question,
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what does that actually look like?
Because, as you say, right
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now it's a lot of kind of
closed ecosystems. But do you see it
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that some of these close ecosists are
actually can start opening up? I'm not
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sure. So I think you've got
two things at play and they will have
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to if the open Meta verses start
to take off. So I mean at
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the you you look at what is
met as Verton view of the metaverse,
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and now I think it's probably something
like ready player one right, where you're
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sort of in this community doing everything
open. I think the challenged historically with
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these kind of very open metaverses is
that you kind of show up and don't
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know what to do. There isn't
a lot to do, whereas the ones
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that have clearly worked historically have been
the games right, which is it's super
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obvious how you do it. You
reason to be in there is to play
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this game. At the same time
you want to express yourself with products,
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etc. So I think you will
start to see, probably before the closed
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systems open up, I think you'll
start to see individual brand striking more deals
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with more of these gaming platforms where
the where the activity is happening today.
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I think they just will have to
happen. You're seeing a little bit in
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row blocks, fortnight, etc.
But I think you'll see a lot more
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of that. And then at the
same time you've got this parallel development of
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these open metaverses. I'm not smart
enough to figure out what those are going
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to look like, but I think
people are dedicating enough money, meant effort
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towards finding something that will really draw
consumers in and a more open way that
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someone will figure it out and then
it'll be obvious for brands to come in.
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Yeah, that seems to make sense, just in terms of figuring out
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ways you can actually open up and
have a you being able to interact with
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maybe different universes, but also,
at the same time, I think,
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in a big way. I guess
maybe the first step is to have your
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identity which includes, you know,
maybe all the entities you own, for
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example, going from you know,
met some Meta verse, Hmm, and
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I think that will definitely happen.
Right as you bring up the inoperability and
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the buildity to bring these digital versions
of things authenticated in a real way,
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you know, those experiences that consumers
will love. That we're still always out,
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but I think that will happen.
How do you also think about I
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know we've talked a little bit about
the metaverse, which is fantastic. I
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talk about the metaverse, but how
do you also think about changes in the
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instore experiences like when it consumer walks
into the door of a retail shop.
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What goes through your mind in terms
of opportunity that you're seeing when it comes
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to this, you know, intersection
of just technology and retail that you think
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could make a big impact? I
think it's a little harder to think to
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that. I mean there's some like
you can imagine a world where if you
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have certain brands associate with with certain
NPT's associate with the brand, that you
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get some special experience or conciteer's service
as you walk in. I think that
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might be a thing. I think
probably the probably the most vivid version or
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most specific version you'll see in the
store is, I think, the connection
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of a physical product to a digital
identity, whether it's through Qr code or
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NFC. I think we're just at
the early stages of that, where you
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can walk into a store and you
can see the province of this of this
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shirt. You know which factory was
this specific shirt, which factory was produced
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in. You know any ecological impact
you might want to ask like to view.
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You could see that just by scanning
the item. So I think,
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I mean that's probably the most vivid
thing you'll see in the store, which
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is, you know, a link
of these physical products to their digital identity
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which goes all the way back to, you know, the factory that it
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was built in. So that's probably
the most meaningful thing you'll see, I
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think, in the CPG world also, you you'll see that connection, less
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so for providence and things like that, but more so for building a direct
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interaction between that brand and the end
consumer for repurchase or for other reasons,
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to build a direct brands to the
physical product. So I think those are
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the things will probably see. I
don't think a lot of those things require
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the blockchain, but subtangentially, probably
most relevant. Yeah, no, no,
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no, that's that's really helpful.
Up. Do you do you think
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that, you know, brands of
today need to embrace web three and,
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you know, thinking through all these
different topics, like, you know,
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may be introducing teas or tokens.
Do you think that brands of today need
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to embrace web three in order to
win in this next generation? Right now?
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I think if you say need,
I think the answer is no.
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Like, do they absolutely need to? I think if you are an early
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especially the established brands, but if
I'm an early brand, that I don't
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have all those weapons of facebook targeting. I think you would be missing a
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big opportunity if you did not write. You're building your community from scratch,
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you have the most ability to give
out, you know, effectively, equity
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to your community at the early stages. I think those are the brands that
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have the biggest opportunity, but I
think what they have to be doing is
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experimenting right and understanding the best ways. If I'm existing brand, to take
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my address, I'm going Bultcha Gamana, taking this dress, and how do
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I create this digital twin or digital
product and how to consumers want to interact
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with that? I think you're missing
out today because if you don't learn today,
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when it becomes mandatory, you want
to be understanding to be able to
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take advantage of where where this market
goes. And a lot of folks talk
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about blockchain. You think that blockchain
actually won't be able to or you don't
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actually need block chain to solve this
problem, but we had maybe web to
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will suffice. Is there anything that
kind of comes to mind in that?
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Yeah, I actually think one of
the most talked about applications, which I
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actually think probably doesn't need as much
and doesn't need a blockchain is as much
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as people think it does. Is
Sort of like supply chain traceability, and
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a lot of people talk about hey, I loved it, like put all
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this data on the blockchain of where
this product traversed so that anybody in the
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community, consumers, suppliers, etc. Could see that. Well, in
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theory that sounds interesting. I think
many of the challenges the people have had
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with supply chain technology broadly, you
know, how do you get everybody in
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the sort of the chain fun intended
to participate in this ecosystem? Doesn't really
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change whether you're using blockchain or a
standard database. I think that's one of
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the biggest challenges. I think to
you know, really ensuring if you have
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this digital identity, how do you
make sure it's tied to the to the
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physical product, because there's lots of
ways that those two could get separated and
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then the value goes away. I
think, you know, in a couple
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cases, things like diamonds or other
products which are actually you with with a
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bunch of really interesting identified defication technologies, you can keep tying the back to
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the blockchain. Those are probably the
more the bigger applications. I just think
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supply chain of the problem is huge
and it's not the public visibility of the
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blockchain, it's the getting everybody on
board. So it feels like the use
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of blockchain for that is a little
bit, a little bit overblown. What's
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your due diligence process when you're looking
at opportunities and met with founders within bet
316
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are focused on building block Sain technologies
with maybe retail applications? I'm gonna I
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think it's probably not that much different
than anything we've looked in kind of the
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retail tech landscape, which is,
you know, our focus is always been
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with a sector lens applied to it, and I think our ability to connect
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with many of our friends in the
brand and retailer space and really just talk
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to them one on one about are
you currently or are you going to adopt
322
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this sort of technology, or would
you under what circumstances? The most of
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our diligence revolves around talking to those
brands, read those who might be the
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ultimate customers, are utilize users of
this technology, and really get a sense
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for where their head is right and
it. Is this a today problem,
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is a tomorrow problem or is this
a hey, never makes the top ten
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priorities, so doesn't get traction.
So I the bulk of our diligence revolves
328
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around really understand the market and the
customers and trying to understand whether they're ready,
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because I think for a lot of
these things almost certainly going to happen,
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but your success of your investment is
predicated on getting the timing right,
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which is a little bit tricky to
figure out. Yeah, no, I
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had on a Mike Gafari a couple
months ago and he was saying how the
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one thing about the metaverse and bought
in technology. I mean maybe it's having
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this moment right now, but we
don't quite know when the petty's going to
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drop when it comes to large scale
option, and I think that's part of
336
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the big if obviously when investing,
because it seems like it's still early,
337
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but maybe it's right on time.
So it's really, really tough to know.
338
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Yeah, that's why we focused on. Well, there's lots of applications
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that you could presume over time.
You know, trying to focus on who
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what are the near term, you
know, short term applications of this technology.
341
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The brands are doing today. I
mean people are already issuing and FT's
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for expensive watches right in conjunction so
that actually the activity is happening today.
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So could you imagine more of it
happening? Of course, and you don't
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have to jump through a whole much
of hoops, you know, mental hoops,
345
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to understand where they could go in
the short term. What else do
346
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you think about the current you know
nft market? You know, obviously there's
347
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a very big rush. It's very
exciting. That's been, I'm happy,
348
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over the past year two. How
do you think about you know and ift's
349
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maybe that are here to say,
versus ones that aren't? I think most
350
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of the end of t's don't make
sense, but that's not said that I
351
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don't think enough tas makes sense,
because I actually think they do. So
352
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I think we are at this experimentation
phase where we're seeing huge numbers of things
353
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that people are trying, from art
to Crypto Punks, to board apes to
354
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what have you, really to see
what's going to stick. I think today
355
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the prices of those assets are driven
more by speculation rather than what's actually going
356
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to stick. So I think we
just need time to sort of cure that
357
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out. But do I think that
digital are enabled through nft is going to
358
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be a big thing absolutely, Yes, right. So I think that's that's
359
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:18.359
one category that I think it's good. It's going to take off and I
360
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think there will be other instant categories
that we haven't even imagined yet. And
361
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then there's a bunch of enabling technology. Is like, you know, I
362
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imagine that nft for individual collectible product
and that collectible product can live in a
363
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vault somewhere. Well, you and
I are trading that digital version of that
364
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product that's back by the physical in
a way. That would have been super
365
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painful if I was sending a trading
card and then you would send training card
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and somebody else. So I think
those sorts of applications are much more near
367
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and valuable to consumers. But then
they'll be the whole thing that all set
368
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of nfts that we thought were stupid
and end up being actually lasting, have
369
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lasting value. So I think just
too are little UMB I agree with you
370
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that I think obviously enfis are here
to stay. I do think, though,
371
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only a small percentage of the current
NFC's are here to stay. How
372
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do you describe like? You know, when talking to some of my older
373
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family members who are like, oh
my gosh, why do we people even
374
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pay for NFT's or what's even the
attraction? You spend a lot of time
375
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in this world. How do you
justify anyone that's maybe Barish on nft overall?
376
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How do you think about why someone
would purchase an NFT and also what
377
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it symbolizes? I was looking for
a knowledges because that's just easier for people
378
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understand. I think trading cards are
that the easiest analogy to give to anybody
379
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who you know doesn't believe an NFTS, because I think it's in some ways
380
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to the same thing. Right.
There's no intrinsic value into the product itself,
381
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but the uniqueness and the rareness of
that product is what drives value and
382
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the overall communities view of that value
is what drives the value, and I
383
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think nfts are simply a digital version
of that. So I think that's one
384
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way to describe sort of a pure
nft, not not tied to any physical
385
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product. I think the authentication use
gets random. Tie's a little bit easier
386
00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:03.160
to explain, which is this is
a digital certificate. Think of it as
387
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your Gia Certificate for a digital GIA
certificate for a diamond at which is a
388
00:26:08.759 --> 00:26:12.400
little bit easier for people understand,
but I think that's the analogy actically uses,
389
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that is the trading card analogy.
Or something has value even though it's
390
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there's no underlying intrinsic value of the
product totally. And I also appreciate you
391
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:26.200
that analogy with trading cards. I
don't think we've had another person bring up
392
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that analogy before, so that's that's
really helpful. How do you also just
393
00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:33.599
for brands that maybe don't quite understand
why, you know, owning a digital
394
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wallet is, how powerful that is
in terms of also the customer identification that
395
00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:41.319
you get with it. Talks to
me a little bit about how you think
396
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:47.359
about why, if you introduce like
tokens and they're actually part of your community,
397
00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:51.000
like why is it actually a lot
more powerful maybe than you know an
398
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:55.680
access, for example, to an
email? I think what's interesting about blockchain
399
00:26:55.759 --> 00:27:00.240
and Crypto is that while in some
ways your identities are anonymous, the activity
400
00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:04.960
is fully traceable, like all the
transactions that happen of this good. You
401
00:27:06.039 --> 00:27:10.039
are in the plane, open view
for everybody to see. So if you
402
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:15.079
were to say hey, if you
were Gucci or ms or any brand,
403
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:19.119
wouldn't you be interested in understanding we
are all of your products since the dawn
404
00:27:19.240 --> 00:27:23.200
of time have gone. Who has
them now? which hands that they they
405
00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:29.319
trade, that they pass through before
getting to their ultimate sort of owner and
406
00:27:29.559 --> 00:27:33.960
with some additional technology, would you
have the ability to interface and communicate with
407
00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:37.240
folks in that chain? It's a
pretty powerful concept in a way that you
408
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:44.279
know, email addresses is relatively simple
and and really doesn't give you a sense
409
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for what's going on your community.
So that's probably what I would would say
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and try to describe it, but
we're sort of a still at Nason stage
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of like it's not clear out.
Brands could do it today, but I
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think in the future will find more
ways that they can utilize that. Understanding
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what's happening in the blockchainder them should
a customers in a much better way.
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Yeah, I mean I think it's
a great way to describe it. As
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you say, this is still very
much, for so very much only the
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tip of the iceberg with this.
We're still trying to understand what the use
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cases could be and how powerful it
could be to actually have a wallet and
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what that actually could unlock for a
brand. What do you think is one
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thing about block chain and Crypto that
you think is maybe largely misunderstood by people
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that are either have an understanding of
it or if they have undertained of it,
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or people that don't. I think
probably goes back too many people try
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to come up with use cases for
the blockchain L Crypto, where, you
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know, a standard database with just
suffice. I think people trying to find
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00:28:41.559 --> 00:28:48.000
too many use cases for CRYPTO and
blockchain and they're really have to be important
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00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:51.920
elements of the use case that make
it valid and, frankly, worth the
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00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:56.119
overhead of doing it. I think
this I didn't you know. Idea of
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00:28:56.119 --> 00:29:00.960
of community makes sense. Authentication makes
sense if there's some reason why everybody in
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00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:04.039
the world needs to see how these
transactions are playing out and a central identity
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00:29:04.119 --> 00:29:07.920
or center authority doesn't make a lot
of sense. That's powerful, but I
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00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:12.480
think there's just an over over use
and overstretching of how to find new applications
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00:29:12.519 --> 00:29:17.480
for crypto beyond where it really makes
sense. Yeah, I know that totally
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00:29:17.480 --> 00:29:19.279
and that probably makes your job a
bit harder, since you have a lot
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00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:22.680
of a lot of different opportunities and
your kind of seeing what actually could be
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the right use cases or not.
What's one book that has inspired you professionally
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00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:34.440
and one book that is inspired you
personally, I think one book on professional
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00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:37.400
and I'm not sure what the inspire
is the right word, but I just
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00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:42.079
that resonated with me. So I
was a CEO of a start up for
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00:29:42.119 --> 00:29:45.359
a number of years and I read
Ben Horwitz is the hard thing about hard
439
00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:51.039
things, and it was the one
book that like I felt like it really
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00:29:51.160 --> 00:29:56.759
described the startup CEO or startup executive
journey and like just how brutally hard it
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00:29:56.880 --> 00:30:00.480
is, and I think it it
inspires me you to back the founders that
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00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:03.799
we back today, both my experience. They're just being reminded of it by
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00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:07.480
reading that book in a way that
it is just so hard to build these
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00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:11.640
startups and a set of appreciation for
the CEOS who do that and our desire
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00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:17.480
as edge capitalists to support them with
both capital, which is probably the easier
446
00:30:17.559 --> 00:30:23.359
part, but also just support and
understanding and help. I think really asmires
447
00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:27.359
me on on the on the professional
front. So I don't preignment, but
448
00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:33.200
my choice in the unprofessional front maybe
it's on the same realm of like just,
449
00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:36.480
you know, getting through and making
it endurance that you know the story
450
00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:41.200
of Shackleton's journey through, I think, the South Pole and and just like
451
00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:44.960
the perseverance and leadership of someone who
like going to that journey. I was
452
00:30:45.079 --> 00:30:48.519
reminded of it because they found his
boat like two weeks ago, and so
453
00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:52.440
that journey of almost all was lost
and then you still came out victorious.
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00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:56.200
I think was was pretty inspiring from
a personal effective my found a question to
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00:30:56.240 --> 00:31:00.400
you is, what is one piece
of advice that you have for founders who
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00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:07.319
are building? I think it's really
to spend time with the customers and really
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00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:14.000
try to understand their problems rather than
trying to create a solution and then go
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00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:18.000
looking for a problem. And I
think it particular resonates for me inside of
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00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:22.880
kind of those founders are selling into
retailers and brands. Be It so obvious,
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00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:26.359
as we talked to the retail from
brands, if you if you aren't
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00:31:26.359 --> 00:31:30.240
one of the top one, two
or three priorities for these customer ors,
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00:31:30.519 --> 00:31:33.200
you just can't get the time of
day. And I see so many founders
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00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:37.359
struggle with, you know, a
problem they think is important but haven't truly
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00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:41.480
vetted it with those customers and understand
not only it is is it a problem,
465
00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:45.640
but is it a top one,
two or three problem for a certain
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00:31:45.640 --> 00:31:48.839
customer set, and I think just
doing your work to really understand that,
467
00:31:48.079 --> 00:31:52.480
rather than spending huge amounts of time
to to beat your head against the wall
468
00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:56.480
and not being able to get to
the executives because even if it is an
469
00:31:56.480 --> 00:32:00.559
important problem, it's not so important
that then you drop everything to meet with
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00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:02.680
you and go hear about some crazy
start up and why you should pay money
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00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:06.519
for to buy the solution that.
Thank you so much for your time.
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00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:07.799
It's has been a lot of fun. Chet, thanks, thanks, thanks
473
00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:12.440
for having me on. Love the
show and said that it was so happy
474
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:14.920
to be on it. So thanks
for taking time with me. And there
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00:32:14.920 --> 00:32:16.640
you have it. It was such
a pleasure chatting with Matt. I hope
476
00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:20.839
you all enjoyed listening. If you
enjoyed this episode, I love it if
477
00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:23.200
you'd write a review on the apple
podcast. You're also welcome to follow me
478
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:27.440
your host, Mike, on twitter
at Mike Guelb, and also follow for
479
00:32:27.480 --> 00:32:50.200
episode announcements at Consumer VC. Thanks
for listening. Everyone,
