Transcript
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Hello and welcome to the consumer VC. I am your host, Michael but
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and on this show we talked about
the world of venture capital and innovation in
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both consumer technology and consumer products.
If you're enjoying this content, you could
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subscribe to my newsletter, the consumer
VC DOT sub stackcom, to get each
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new episode and more consumer news delivered
straight to your inbox. Our guest today
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is Melissa Urban, founder of whole
thirty. The whole thirty program eliminates cravings,
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improves physical energy and quality of sleep
and has changed millions of people's lives.
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It's a pretty amazing story. We're
going to hear how Melissa went from
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Rehab to changing her lifestyle completely,
getting into nutrition and getting in shape,
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why she started a blog and ran
this thirty day diet experiment that turned into
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what became whole thirty. Will also
discuss the business behind whole thirty, how
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she approaches partnerships of CPT brands that
fit the whole thirty identity and what letter
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to create her own CPG products.
Without further ADO, here's Melissa. Melissa,
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thank you so much for joining me
here today. How are you?
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Hi, Mike, so good to
meet you. I'm doing great thank you.
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Thanks for having me. Oh,
it's an absolute pleasure. Thanks again
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for taking the time. I wanted
for start the very beginning. What was
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your initial full attraction or how did
you become interested in nutrition and fitness?
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Well, it was a little bit
of a roundabout approach. It actually started
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when I entered into recovery for my
drug addiction. I was addicted for a
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period of about five years, from
my late teens and college years and to
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my early S, and when I
got out of Rehab for the second time,
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I realized that I was going to
have to change everything about my life
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if I was going to maintain my
recovery. I had already relapsed once I
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didn't want it to happen again.
And so, you know, I made
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a ton of changes all at once. I changed my friends, I changed
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my clothes, I got a new
job, I moved, I changed the
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music that I listened to and I
started going to the gym and eating healthy,
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because I said to myself, what
would a healthy person with healthy habits
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do? Because that's who I wanted
to become. That was desperately who I
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wanted to be and I was like, well, a healthy person with healthy
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habits would start getting up before work
and they'd go to the gym five mornings
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a week. And so that's what
I started doing in response to my recovery
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and soon it became a habit and
then it became a real passion and a
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love and I've been doing that for, you know, the last twenty two
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years straight. Wow, that's really
just amazing and I really appreciate you sharing
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that. For anyone that's looking to
change a major maybe habit change or anything
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like that, which is really,
really hard to do, what would be
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maybe some advice that you have for
them? Yeah, so I have a
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couple tricks that I used because it
wasn't easy for me to start getting up
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early going to the gym. I
lived in new ham sure at the time
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it was cold, it was dark
in the morning, I wasn't at all
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fit. I had just gotten out
of Rehab so it was a real challenge.
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But I did a couple things.
The first thing that I did was
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I made it as easy as possible
for me to maintain that habit. So
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every night before I went to bed, I would set out everything I needed
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for the next day, my gym
clothes, top to bottom, all the
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way down to like my socks,
my underwear. I'd plan out, I'd
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get all my work clothes ready and
they'd all be ready to go in the
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spare bedroom. I packed my lunch
and it was in a bag in the
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fridge. So when I woke up
in the morning, there was like very
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little friction between me and actually getting
in my car to go to the gym
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because I had everything done the night
before. The second thing I did as
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I told myself all I had to
do was show up. That was it.
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All I had to do was show
up at the gym and if I
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walked in and checked in with the
front desk person and I wanted to walk
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right back out that door, I
could and that was it. That was
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all I needed to do because I
had gone to the gym in the morning
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and inevitably, of course, I
would get there and I'd be like,
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well, I'm not just going to
walk out what I'm already here and I
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go in and make the effort.
But it made showing up the goal and
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that allowed me just to be really
consistent and successful. So the goal wasn't
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the workout. It wasn't to work
out for forty five minutes or to hit
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a certain, you know, wait
on my squad. It was just show
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up. And then the other little
trick that I used was I told myself
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if I got out of bed in
the morning and put my gym clothes on
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and like didn't want to go that
day, I didn't have to. And
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I almost never needed to use that
trick because I'd be up at five o'clock
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in the morning and I put my
gym close on, be walking around my
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like dark cold house with my dog
and be like well, I'm now,
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I'm up, I might as well
go. So there are a few little
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things I did that I now know
we're very grounded and habit research. That
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just felt very intuitive to me.
Make it as easy as possible, reduce
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as much friction as possible and make
the goal showing up, and it also
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required less will power. So I
think one of the things people don't they
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think about will power and you think
about it in terms of I'm going to
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resist the temptation of the you know
cake that's in the break room and you
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think about this like very active resistance, but there are a zillion acts in
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our day before we even leave the
house to go to work, that require
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will power, not hitting snooze,
getting up out of bed, brushing our
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teeth, all of these things require
effort and will power, and the more
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you can preserve that will power for, like the big things that you really
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want to do, the more you'll
have. So to reduce the amount of
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will power I had to use to
not hit snooze, I had my clock
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radio set all the way across the
room. I couldn't hit snooze, I'd
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a physically get out of bed,
and so that's how I learned not to
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hits news. All of my clothes
were ready, so I didn't have to
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like will power my way to like
finding my sports bra and my tights,
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like Nope, they were all right
there and super easy for me to put
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on. So I reduce the amount
of will power I had to use to
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make that habit successful as well,
and that was really important because it meant
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I had more when it did come
to things like, okay, now I'm
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going to try to eat healthy for
the rest of the day, or I'm
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going to go to bed earlier instead
of, you know, watching another Netflix
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episode, totally total. Really know
that makes a ton of sense. Just
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trying to make it all very kind
of simple and easy to do so you
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don't really have to use up your
will power or to actually go to the
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gym, what have you. So
I sure develop e these new habits.
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You're becoming much more interested in nutrition, you're going to the gym, you
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gain in shape. Where did you
think? Where to kind of whole thirty
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trickle in into your mind, or
even that, hey, maybe I want
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to help other people with this goal
and maybe you just even, just a
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little capacity. Yeah, so whole
thirty started into April two thousand and nine.
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So this is about nine years after
my normal reckon. You know,
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I had begun to write a regular
exercise routine. I started doing cross bit
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in two thousand and six and that's
when I really started paying attention to things
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like performance and recovery and started exercising
in a more deliberate way. In two
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thousand and nine, whole thirty started
as just a two person self experiment.
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My cofounder and I were sitting around
after a really challenging Olympic lifting session and
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I remember I was eating thin mints
right out of this leave because I had,
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you know, just exercised and I
had earned them. And we were
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talking about this nutrition seminar we had
recently attended that was talking about anti inflammatory
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foods and foods influence on things like
athletic performance and recovery, and my cofounder
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was like, what if we did
this super squeaky clean, like thirty day
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really strict elimination protocol, like we
just, you know, kind of strip
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the last twenty percent a junk out
of our diet? I meeting my thin
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men's and I'm like, yeah,
that sounds great, let's do it.
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When do you want to start?
He was like let's start right now.
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And all the things that made me
a really good drug addict make me really
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good at habit change, because I
can be like very black or white or
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honor off. So I handed my
thin mints off to my friend Zac and
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I was like yeah, let's do
it. And so the whole thirty was
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really just let's do this little self
experiment clean up the last twenty percent.
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I was already eating what I thought
was pretty healthy. I was like the
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healthiest person in my office. But
what I wonder what that last kind of
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little clean up would do. I
was hoping to see athletic performance and recovery
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improvements, and I certainly did,
but I also saw tremendous improvements and energy.
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No more to PM, had slumped
on desk. Need Caffeine, need
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sugar. That was gone. I
had energizer, Bunner, bunny energy all
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day long. I was sleeping so
much better, my mood was so much
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happier. People at work we're noticing
that. Like I was more talkative and
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more jovial, and it identified for
me a dysfunctional relationship with food. Not
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that I ever had an eating disorder
or anything, but like I was using
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food kind of the way I used
to use drugs as a reward, as
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a punishment, to self soothe,
to relieve anxiety, to show myself love.
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And in the absence of those foods
for thirty days, I had to
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come up with other ways to manage
my stress, and that actually felt really
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healthy and affirming for me. So, because I had such a great experience,
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I shared about it on my crossfit
training blog and couple hundred people were
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like, I'd be interested in trying
that. So I wrote up this really
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rudimentary set of rules and in July
two thousand and nine, that was the
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start of the official like I guess, the very first group pull thirty.
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Wow, that's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, we you first did what
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became whole thirty. What was maybe
like the hardest part about it, in
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terms of maybe food that you specifically
get had to give up? Yeah,
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I mean I wasn't really drinking much
alcohol, so that was not hard.
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I did miss my like Duncan donuts
ICED Turbo Caramel Latte in the morning because
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like every morning before I, you
know, after the gym, I would
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do my Duncan donuts, ice Caramel
Lotte and my like everything big all with
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strawberry cream cheese right getting those like
good healthy whole grains in, and I
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definitely miss that. So there was
like a learning curve. If I'm not
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going to eat these whole grain,
low fat kind of bodybuilder type like what
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everyone thought was healthy, then if
I'm not going to do that, like
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one am I going to eat for
breakfast? So definitely it was a learning
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curve. there. They were specific
foods like cheese that I really missed way
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more than I thought I would,
which was ironic because when I reintroduce cheese,
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I realized that, like it did
not work well for me at all,
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and it also just made me super
aware of how often they add sugar,
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two things that you would not expect
would have sugar in them. I
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don't know that there was anyone aspect
that was like harder than anything else,
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because I'm pretty good about like if
I say I'm going to do something,
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I just do it. But it
was definitely a big learning curve in terms
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of grocery shopping and meal prepping.
was there any maybe cheese might be one
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of them, but was there any
foods that you think, okay, I
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don't have a sensitivity here at all, and then we you did whole thirty
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you're like, oh my gosh,
I actually really do big time. Dairy
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was huge for me. I used
to eat like tubs of low fat cottage
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cheese. That was like my jam
because it was super high and protein and
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low and fat. I ate a
lot of like soft cheese, has goat
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cheese, feta cheese, and when
I reintrud and like Dan and light and
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fit yogurts, that was the one
thing. I used to love those and
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when I reintroduce them, all I
could taste was like the artificial flavor in
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it. It didn't taste good anymore
and I was really surprised at how much
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my stomach and digestive tracked like revolted
at the idea of dairy. It did
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not go well for me and I
was so surprised. But I think what
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happened is that I had just been
walking around like with not great digestion and
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bloated basically all the time, and
it had just become my normal and I
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didn't really think anything of it and
it wasn't until I did the whole thirty
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that I was like, oh my
gosh, my I can have like really
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smooth digestion. It took a couple
weeks for it to even out, but
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once it did, I was like, okay, this is amazing and I'm
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not bloated all the time. I
noticed that like my skin wasn't breaking out
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as often and again my energy was
so much better. So there were a
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lot of surprises, but that first
whole thirty really identified this new like normal,
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this new standard that I actually could
achieve just with making dietary changes,
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and that was now the standard by
whish I was measuring like is this food
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worth it or not? And those
food sensitivity tests, you know, at
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the time I didn't realize that I
had a lot of issues with my gut.
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I probably had leaky got, which
is the sort of, you know,
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kind of colloquial term for like digestive
disruption or intestinal permeability. So I
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probably had that, which meant that
I was more sensitive to food that I
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would have been had my gut had
been healed, for example. Now I
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feel like I'm in a much better
place with my gut and I can do
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cheese way more often and it's way
it has like far fewer negative effects.
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Those food sensitivity tests can sometimes identify
intolerances that aren't really intolerances, just because
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your got is leaky and stuff is
getting into your blood stream where it doesn't
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belong. An elimination diet is still, I buy a lot of doctored standards,
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kind of still the gold standard in
terms of identifying food sensitivities and it's
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something that anyone can do. You
don't have to go through an R D,
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which requires money and time and privilege. You know, you don't have
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to be prescribed by your medical doctor. You can just eliminate foods for thirty
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days and add them back in at
the end and see how they work for
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you. So it's a very low
lift way of figuring out which foods may
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or may not work best in your
system in this current context. What was
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next when you were as you were
kind of in the early innings of creating
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whole thirty yeah, so that's exactly
what I did. I wrote up a
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really rudimentary set of rules and I
was like, okay, here's what I
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did, here's what I want you
to follow for the next thirty days.
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I ran it all off of like
a blog spot, blog post. So
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you know, it was like people
were asking questions and comments and I was
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responding and I was like here's the
deal, I'm going to guide you through
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this for thirty days. If you
have questions, let me know. I'll
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share from my own experience. If
you have questions about like how to meal
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prep or what foods to eat or
well, you know what to sub for
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certain things, I can help you. You need to do this for thirty
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days by the book. You can't
like half do it or do it on
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weekends, because that's not how an
elimination diet works right. You have to
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completely eliminate the foods that you're testing
and then reintroduce them really like a scientific
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experiment. So like do this a
hundred percent or don't, but like,
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if you're going to do it,
you know through me. I want you
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to do it the way that it's
meant to be done. And then I
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walked people through it for thirty days
and people ask questions and I answered those
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questions and it really wasn't until the
end of those thirty days that their testimonial
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started rolling in and I realized,
Oh, this is like we have something
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here, this is something really good. You know, when two people do
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a self experiment and they get amazing, life changing kind of similar results,
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you're like that's interesting. When a
hundred people right back and they're like my
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energy skyrocketed, my sleep improve,
my skin is better, my digestion is
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better, my cravings are gone,
my inflammation is down, and then you
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start to hear things like, you
know, my allergies got better, I
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didn't have any asthma attacks, I
didn't have any migrains in those thirty days.
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Then you were like wow, I
mean food is incredibly powerful. And
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that was the point where I was
like this is definitely something that we want
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to keep, you know, talking
about and promoting and making better and creating
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resources. And that's really how it's
snowballed from there. No, that's amazing.
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That's amazing. And so once you
realize that not only was this start
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off as experiment change your own life
right and really made you understand your body
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the better, but you're slowly kind
of turning into also a thought leader or
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someone that's actually helping other people really
understand or identify their own bodies, and
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obviously with powerful reviews of it about. You know how this is so life
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changing. At that point, when
you were thinking about, okay, what
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additional content or ways that could be
help people, what was kind of the
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next step that was. Essentially it
was me talking to my community, which
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continue to just slowly grow from there, going okay, what else do you
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need? What do you need to
be helpful here? What could I do?
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What could I give you? And
people would go, you know,
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I'd be really helpful to have a
shopping list because, like, I don't
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really know what to buy when I
go to the grocery store now if I'm
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not doing, you know, breads
and cereals and Pastas and rice as my
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side dish, what should I get? And I was like, okay,
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I'll create a shopping list for you, and then it was, you know,
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there's a lot of at like how
do I put a meal together?
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How much should I be eating?
Should I be counting calories, tracking calories?
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And we were like no, we
really you're not restricting calories, you're
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not counting calories. This is not
weight loss program. You're going to eat
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to satiety, but like, we
want to make sure you're eating enough.
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So here's a general baseline that you
can use within you know, arrange to
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a commodate for like how big you
are and how active you are, etc.
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How to stock your Pantry, how
to order dine out at a restaurant.
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This was back in two thousand and
nine. So there were no whole
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thirty bowls at chipotle. There was
no primal kitchen Mayo or like shelve upon
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shelf of whole thirty approved goods to
you know, pick from. There wasn't
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even a Mayo. We were like
making our own Mayo, making our own
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bone broth, like it was walking
up hill. You know, in this
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snow both ways. So I wanted
to just offer as many resources as I
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could to make it easy for people, and every good idea I've ever had
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for the whole thirty comes from the
community and from comes from them saying I
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could use this, I could use
some recipes, this would be helpful,
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or me noticing a pain point and
going, Oh, I have an idea
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about how I can make this easier
for you. And so that's really where
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I spent the next two years of
my whole thirty life, is just creating
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things to make people more successful with
the program. And what do you say
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creating things? It seems like,
as you describe it, it's a lot
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of like consumer education in terms of
shopping lists and, you know, things
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that you should eat versus that that
you shouldn't eat, and when you go
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into a grocery store, which,
if you want to keep to a specific
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regiment, can be pretty overwhelming.
So it's really trying to understand what people
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actually should be in cheing, be
eating or how they should be shopping if
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they do want to subscribe to a
whole dirty diet. And it also is
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well, is this when you also
started to introduce your own products in terms
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of your own dress sings are now, that didn't happen until like two thousand
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and twenty. Oh Wow, okay, oh, yeah, took us a
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long time. It took us a
long time before we started focusing on our
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own products. I was really for
the first two or three years it was
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traveling three weekends out of a month
to various crossfit gym's, talking to people
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about how to do the whole thirty, creating resources, really qualifying the rules
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and making sure they were really clear
and well thought out. And then there
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was a I wrote a ton of
articles, a ton of articles like why
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do I have to do this for
thirty days a hundred percent by the books,
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and what is reintroduction and why is
it important? And how do I
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talk to my family about doing whole
thirty? And should I be eating fruit?
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Why shouldn't I be counting calories?
Why isn't this a weight Lost Diet?
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There was so much information and people
had so many questions about it that
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I just was plugging holes and being
like, okay, let me create something
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for you. So you know,
for a really long time we gave almost
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everything away for free. There was
a ton of writing and resource creation.
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We did some workshops kind of educating
people around the whole thirty, and it
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wasn't until two thousand and twelve that
the very first hole thirty book came out.
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So you know, three years later
came the decision of like okay,
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maybe we should write a book about
it and then we won't have to,
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you know, do workshops for a
hundred people at a time three weekends a
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month. We can just say like
hey, we wrote a whole book about
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it and that's all, you know, you'll need to do. And so
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that's really where, like the first
book, it starts with food, came
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from. It's amazing. That's no, it's really cool. Was it also
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hard because during this period, like
the early two thousand and ten S,
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there was also Paleo and you maybe
some other diets to that were or lifestyles
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that were coming out that were,
you know, became quite popular. Was
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it hard to make you know,
whole thirty maybe distinctive towards of you know,
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all the other kind of diets that
were kind of around or just kind
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of on the verge of gay started? You know, I never really thought
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about it. I never I know
that there were other thirty or twenty one
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day programs floating around. I know
that lots of people were doing Paleo.
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It was kind of the tail end
of Zone in Crossfitland, but a lot
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of people were doing Paleo. I
never really thought about it. I never
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really looked at what other people were
doing. I knew that the whole thirty
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was really good and it worked so
well for the vast majority of people who
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are doing it and that was all
I focused on. I just put my
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head down and thought, how can
I help the people who are coming to
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me to do whole thirty? So
I've never really been a big fan and
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of like keeping an eye on the
competition and, you know, wondering what
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they're doing and thinking about tailoring our
approach to meet those I've always just been
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really focused on what I know is
really good about what we do and just
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making it even better. And I
didn't think it was hard to to kind
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of differentiate ourselves because I felt like
I've always had such a strong voice and
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my voice has been the voice of
whole thirty since day one. So it's
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been consistent and the voice has been, you know, there and the program
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is always been incredibly well defined and
that was always something that was just really
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easy to fall back on. How
do you also think about, you know,
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iterating within whole thirty in terms of
maybe what ingredients or products maybe should
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be on the Diet or should be
not I think of. That is what,
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to me, is also really fascinate
about whole thirty, because I know
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that you make changes and are kind
of thinking about because I'm sure you're extremely
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meticulous when it comes to when ingredients
maybe should be on the Diet verse not.
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How do you think about that in
the progression of whole thirty through the
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years? Yeah, we are always
always looking at the foundation for our rules
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and our support. We're always looking
at the science and, you know,
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has the science changed? If it's
changed, or our understanding of the science
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has changed, then we're going to
make a rule change. We did that
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recently when we removed the rule that
said you can't have MSG on the whole
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thirty. That's been a rule since
two thousand and nine no MSG, and
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a couple years ago I started doing
some research into it and realize that the
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science behind the demonization of MSG is
actually super routed and racism and not particularly
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well sound. It an evidence based
science and there isn't really enough evidence for
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us to say no, you shouldn't
eat it on a whole thirty. So
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we reverse that rule. So we're
always looking at the science where always.
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You know, I've got a team
of clinical advisors that are MD's and ends
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and our D's and healthcare providers that
we go to and we have questions about
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the stuff and try to reach a
consensus. We also have now more than
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twelve years of clinical experience on the
whole thirty. So even if the science
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is iffy on something where it's like
Ah, man, like this could be
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something that we'd want to eliminate according
to the science, or maybe like the
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science, as it could be really
healthy for some people, will go back
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to the clinic, our clinical experience
and if the vast majority of whole thirty
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years say no, I actually did
notice when I reintroduced US I had a
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problem, then we'll continue to leave
it out. So there's no magic to
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it. It's not like I can
definitively say one way or the other because
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everybody's different and there is chat.
It is challenging to create ones that are
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rules, that works as well as
possible for as broad a range of people
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as possible. But we're always talking
about the rules and the guidelines and whole
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thirty approve products and can you have
this and can you have that? We
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have lengthy internal discussions with the whole
h q team and sometimes you know,
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two or three years later will reverse
our position on something because when we know
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better, we want to do better
and I feel really good about taking that
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stance. I really appreciate you sharing
that. I found really interesting and really
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appreciate how there seems to bag an
evolution, always in terms of the brand
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and whole thirty, in terms of
what is on the Dian and what's not.
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It's not just this is it and
this is always going to be it.
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It's always kind of you're always kind
of thinking and kind of iterating on
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more products should be on and off, which is really cool. As I
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mentioned to earlier, as the food
landscape changes, we also have to iterate,
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like when we were making the rules
cauliflower did not know that it could
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become pizza crossed and pasta and all
of the and tortia chips and all the
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other things that cauliflower is now in. So as companies find new creative ways
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to offer gluten free, grain free, dairy free products, we have to
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look at those and go does this
fit the spirit and intention of the whole
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thirty? Like, just because you
can make a cauliflower Tortilla chip, does
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that mean we want you to eat
it on whole thirty. So there are
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a lot of things like as the
food landscape changes, as our understanding of
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diet culture changes and the science changes, of course we're always iterating and we're
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always talking about it and we're always
evolving and I think it's, you know,
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for the better. I don't know
that I would trust a program that
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hasn't changed at all in the last
twelve years. That feels weird to me.
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It's really wonderful when brand's like applegate, for example, you know,
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a couple years ago they took the
sugar out of their bacon and reached out
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and said like hey, we want
to make our bacon whole thirty approved and
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we remove the sugar to make it
approved. Awesome, right, the fact
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that brands like applegate and Organic Ville
are looking at the whole thirty guidelines and
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saying we want to make products specifically
that fit our guidelines and we're willing to
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change our product formulations to do that. You know, chipotle's another example like
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that's amazing and that means that people's
voices are being heard. It's also fantastic
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for people who discover they have a
gluten sensitivity or a dairy sensitivity or a
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soy sensitivity that now they can still
eat tortilla chips or, you know,
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birthday cake or whatever, cream cheese
and not have to worry about eating this
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food that they love but that also
like messing with their digestion or their symptoms.
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The thing that's challenging is that the
education we have to do around the
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idea that just because it's grain free
or gluten, for your dairy free,
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doesn't automatically make it healthy. And
so there is some education around that,
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just as we saw with like low
fat, you know, back in the
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S, like just because it says
low fat doesn't mean it's healthy, just
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because it says Kyto doesn't mean it's
healthy. But I like the opportunity to
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educate like that. I think people
come to the whole thirty in part because
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they want to learn how to read
a food label and what's in their food
404
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and how to make the best choices
for them, and one of the things
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we do really well is educate our
community about some of these nuances of the
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new food products that they're seeing.
That makes a lot of sense it actually.
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That leas be to my next question. With those examples, like how
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did you early on approach relationships and
maybe partnerships with brands that maybe then they
409
00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:04.680
could tie in into hit their whole
thirty friendly? Yeah, so the very
410
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:08.119
first brand we approached is no longer
in business. Shout out to primal paths,
411
00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:11.079
based in Seattle, but they this
was a two thousand and ten.
412
00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:17.079
They were making a sugar free like
jerky snack mix. It was like nuts
413
00:25:17.079 --> 00:25:19.480
and dried mango and sugar free like
beef Jerkey, and you couldn't find sugar
414
00:25:19.559 --> 00:25:22.839
free on the go like meat,
you know, Jerky like that. And
415
00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:26.359
so I reached out to the owner
and I was like, Hey, your
416
00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:30.640
ingredients meet our whole thirty products.
I can inter do you shoot to my
417
00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:34.359
audience and you just can tell your
audience that your whole thirty approved, and
418
00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:37.920
you know, this is like a
win win. I'm going to introduce your
419
00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:41.279
product to more people. My people
are going to have now have an option
420
00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:45.920
that they didn't, you know,
easily identifiable option, and I get the
421
00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:48.519
you know, tie in with this
brand that makes this product that like I'm
422
00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:49.680
not going to make. I'm not
going to make a sugar free Jerkey.
423
00:25:49.720 --> 00:25:52.079
That's not what I do. And
so that's how it started. In some
424
00:25:52.119 --> 00:25:57.799
of our earliest partners, like Lacroix
and epic and CE snacks, are still
425
00:25:57.799 --> 00:26:00.920
with us today. And it really
started because I was like, you make
426
00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:04.400
great products that fit our program I
want to be able to send my people
427
00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:07.799
to use that they don't have to
read so many labels, like what do
428
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:11.440
you say? And these brands were
like yeah, that sounds good and you
429
00:26:11.480 --> 00:26:12.960
know, fast forward. Now we
have over a hundred and forty whole thirty
430
00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:18.480
approve partners and some really fantastic and
big names like chipotle and like applegate and
431
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:22.240
Lacroix and Waterloo and, you know, all of these really fun brands.
432
00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:26.240
But that's how it started. It
just started because there was a need within
433
00:26:26.319 --> 00:26:30.200
the community and if it just really
was like a win all around. Everybody
434
00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:36.319
benefited from the Association brand by brand, name by you know, consumer toys,
435
00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:38.960
and the fact that now my consumers
were able to be more successful with
436
00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:44.000
the program because they had some convenience
products. For the first few years.
437
00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:45.480
I don't want to say like this, but it was very much like a
438
00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:48.680
content business. Right. You are
producing books, you he made near ties
439
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:52.240
best seller. You are obviously writing
a tons of post you were in engaging
440
00:26:52.279 --> 00:26:56.920
with your community. What were the
hardest parts about managing like a content oriented
441
00:26:56.960 --> 00:27:00.920
business? Yeah, I mean I
would still say we're very much a media
442
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:04.000
company. We're still very content forward
and content heavy. I think part of
443
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:07.440
it is just the workload. I
was the rate limiting factor for a while
444
00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:11.519
because I did all the writing.
So, like, I can only write
445
00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:15.359
so much. So that's always definitely, you know, challenging keeping up with
446
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:18.039
new platforms and technology. So,
you know, at first it was the
447
00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:23.480
blog and our whole thirty four Um
and then it was facebook and then it
448
00:27:23.559 --> 00:27:26.480
was instagram and then we did a
four and a snapchat and then it was
449
00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:29.960
our we on Tick Tock and are
we on clubhouse, and you know.
450
00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:33.319
So as social media has grown and
evolved, we've grown involved with it and
451
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:37.000
it's been wonderful. We couldn't,
you know, run our business anywhere near
452
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:41.200
as effectively without it. But that
requires a lot of labor and time and
453
00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:44.440
attention and now maybe more of a
strategy than we used to have. So
454
00:27:44.519 --> 00:27:48.000
that's certainly been challenging. And then
there's just a lot of content out there.
455
00:27:48.039 --> 00:27:55.279
It's easier to develop a fiercely loyal
audience and a really strong connection with
456
00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:57.240
that audience when you're talking one on
one to them, and for a long
457
00:27:57.279 --> 00:28:00.680
time I had the opportunity to do
that. I was doing it in person
458
00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:06.319
at Book Tour Events and at workshops. You know, social media was still
459
00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:11.400
like a smaller venue where you could
actually posts were algorithmic or you could you
460
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:14.119
know you were seeing the post that
you really wanted to see and we were
461
00:28:14.119 --> 00:28:18.480
having those one on one connections.
And now it feels like the majority of
462
00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:21.599
our followers, you know, you're
not seeing as much of what we're posting
463
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:25.160
and our audience doesn't know us as
well or know me as well. So
464
00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:27.400
we've shifted a lot of our content
now to our newsletter, which is far
465
00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:30.960
more of a direct one on one
connection. But you're all you're just always
466
00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:34.240
thinking about that now. You're always
thinking about how can I maintain the connection
467
00:28:34.440 --> 00:28:38.799
as things change? How can I
maintain that relationship with my audience? And
468
00:28:38.839 --> 00:28:44.519
then, as we grew and started
incorporating sponsored content into what we did,
469
00:28:44.559 --> 00:28:48.000
it was how do we make sure
that we continue to ride real value added
470
00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:52.839
information without weighing so heavily on sponsored
content that it starts to feel like we're
471
00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:57.640
always just selling people something and we've
always aired far more on the side of
472
00:28:57.720 --> 00:29:02.599
value than we have sponsored content,
probably to the detriment of our own profit
473
00:29:02.680 --> 00:29:04.359
most of the time. But,
like, I'm comfortable with that because the
474
00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:10.119
relationship we've built with our audiences our
number one priority. Always. How do
475
00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:14.759
you make sure that whole thirty kind
of falls into and becomes more like the
476
00:29:14.759 --> 00:29:18.480
trend side of of that? It
actually is a lifestyle it's a really big
477
00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:23.759
change and make sure that not only
somebody does whole thirty and obviously hopefully enjoys
478
00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:27.680
it, but beyond after they finish
that thirty days, that they're still kind
479
00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:32.000
of in the loop that they want
to kind of keep going. It becomes
480
00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:36.599
actually the almost maintain that that lifestyle
change. The first thing in this is
481
00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:38.519
going to sound really obvious, but
it's often overlooked. You have to have
482
00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:42.640
a really good product. If our
product wasn't very good and didn't work that
483
00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:47.880
well, it wouldn't matter how slick
our marketing campaigns were or our content was
484
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:51.480
or how much I wrote. People
are going to stick around because it's not
485
00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:55.240
that effective. And what the thing
about whole thirty is that it is so
486
00:29:55.319 --> 00:29:59.200
incredibly effective for the vast majority of
people to the point where, when you
487
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:02.240
do it, you want to talk
about it with everybody. It's one of
488
00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:04.359
those things like crossfit or burning man, where it's like, let me tell
489
00:30:04.359 --> 00:30:07.240
you about whole thirty. I want
to proselytize because it was so great for
490
00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:11.319
me and I think everyone could have
this experience and should have this experience.
491
00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:17.079
So we grow tremendously via word of
mouth and remain relevant because the program is
492
00:30:17.119 --> 00:30:19.559
so good and it works so well. I don't just want to get people
493
00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:23.240
in this sales funnel for this thirty
days to sell them this thing. Like
494
00:30:23.319 --> 00:30:30.240
we are building community ahead of everything, and with that community we're talking about
495
00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:33.920
life before whole thirty, life in
your whole thirty, life after your whole
496
00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:37.200
thirty, and your food freedom and
what that looks like. inten gentle things.
497
00:30:37.240 --> 00:30:44.240
You know that our habit related and
relationship and Selfcare, but aren't necessarily
498
00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:47.839
tied into just those thirty days.
We're talking to people about having a growth
499
00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:52.359
mindset and really reframing the idea of
like your identity as a person and how
500
00:30:52.359 --> 00:30:56.720
do you become or how do you
see yourself as that healthy person with healthy
501
00:30:56.759 --> 00:31:00.799
habits and staying connected to this community
is a really effortless way for people to
502
00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:06.039
remind themselves that I am a healthy
person with healthy habits and I can give
503
00:31:06.039 --> 00:31:07.920
back to others in the community now
that I've done the whole thirty and I'm
504
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:11.880
an alumni, which feels really good. And if something knocks me off of
505
00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:17.720
my you know, food, freedom, stressful event or a holiday, I
506
00:31:17.720 --> 00:31:21.240
can come back to the whole thirty
and reset again and that feels really good.
507
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:25.640
So I don't know that we've necessarily
like tried to build in a life
508
00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:30.200
cycle of keeping people involved, but
they stay involved long after their whole dirty
509
00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:36.000
is over because our continued commitment is
to providing value added content for our community
510
00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:40.480
at any phase and all phases.
When did you decide that it was the
511
00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:44.240
right time to launch your impious and
why was that the right period? So
512
00:31:44.279 --> 00:31:47.079
we'd been talking about it for a
while and in fact many of our whole
513
00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:49.720
thirty approve partners and conversation had been
like, why aren't you doing some of
514
00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:53.279
this yourself, like you could be
creating your own whole thirty branded line of
515
00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:56.440
x, Y and Z, you
know, in addition to partnering with us.
516
00:31:56.559 --> 00:32:02.400
Right, but I think we went
into it very cautiously because we had
517
00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:07.880
never really sold anything to our community. We had products for sale, of
518
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:10.319
course, we sold books, we
have an SMS text message service, we
519
00:32:10.359 --> 00:32:15.319
have a hundred and two hundred thirty
certified coaches who, you know, sell
520
00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:19.359
services to coach you through the whole
thirty. But CPG, consumer package goods,
521
00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:22.559
was like a very definitive like we
are going to sell you this product.
522
00:32:22.599 --> 00:32:24.759
So we went into it pretty cautiously, wanting to make sure that the
523
00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:29.319
community was right for it, that
we weren't just, you know, putting
524
00:32:29.319 --> 00:32:31.640
out a line of like whole thirty
branded spatulas just to try to make some
525
00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:35.400
money. Like we wanted to be
really intentional with it and it took a
526
00:32:35.400 --> 00:32:38.599
while, but we thought about where
we were seeing pain points, products where
527
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:43.759
we thought we could add our own
unique kind of flare or unique touch,
528
00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:46.799
and we landed on this line of
five different salad dressing, salad dressings made
529
00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:51.720
with, you know, ingredients that
even exceed the whole thirty standards, with
530
00:32:51.799 --> 00:32:55.839
recipes that came from my own kitchen. So you know, there's a creamy
531
00:32:55.880 --> 00:33:00.680
ball somic that I used to like
concoct myself out of two or three different
532
00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:02.799
ingredients. At home there's a buffalo
and Negrett because I used to put hot
533
00:33:02.839 --> 00:33:07.440
sauce on my salads and everyone thought
it was weird, but it's actually amazing.
534
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:09.920
We made a secret sauce that's a
play on Utah's fry sauce, which
535
00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:14.680
is a condiment here in Salt Lake
City that is so great and we elevated
536
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:15.759
it. Of course we made our
own version of ranch because, like,
537
00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:20.000
I don't even think you can hold
thirty without ranch. But our version is,
538
00:33:20.079 --> 00:33:22.880
you know, so delicious. We
just wanted to make it like extra
539
00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:25.720
Herbie and extra thick. So that
was kind of what we decided. We
540
00:33:25.880 --> 00:33:29.720
spent about a year and a half
and you know, thinking about production and
541
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:32.200
design and we launched in the middle
of a pandemic in August of two thousand
542
00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:36.839
and twenty. Well, it seems
like as well, since you approached it
543
00:33:36.839 --> 00:33:40.079
maybe conservatively when you when you first
came out. I mean also since you
544
00:33:40.119 --> 00:33:44.920
said that you didn't go into retail
when you first came out. It was
545
00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:47.599
the pidemic. It's that was a
bit fort it is considering what was kind
546
00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:50.880
of go went on in the world. So that makes sense. What has
547
00:33:50.920 --> 00:33:53.640
been the reaction so far of your
products. The communities loved it. They
548
00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:59.400
just love having the extra options.
Our flavors definitely added something to the mix
549
00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:02.119
that wasn't already there. They love
being able to add them, you know,
550
00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:06.839
through their normal order at thrive market. I hear again and again I
551
00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:08.519
love just seeing whole s on the
label. So I don't even have to
552
00:34:08.559 --> 00:34:10.960
think about it. I don't have
to worry what's in the ingredients. I
553
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:14.719
don't have to worry if, you
know, the ingredients are good enough or
554
00:34:14.760 --> 00:34:17.519
if they it satisfies my like specific
dietary requirements. I know if I see
555
00:34:17.559 --> 00:34:21.239
whole thirty I can eat it.
People seem to really love the flavor.
556
00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:23.920
We've got hundreds of like five star
reviews in our website, so that's been
557
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:28.679
really good. Our partners have been
incredibly supportive, you know. They love
558
00:34:28.760 --> 00:34:31.840
the idea of making whole thirty more
visible in the market place because it makes
559
00:34:31.880 --> 00:34:35.960
their whole thirty logo on the front
of their bottle stand out even more.
560
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:38.639
So overall, I think it's been
incredibly successful. We're really happy with how
561
00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:44.000
it's gone. That's awesome and since
you obviously were with a ton of partner
562
00:34:44.039 --> 00:34:49.159
products. Has that at all been
challenging, since you're launching a CPG brands
563
00:34:49.159 --> 00:34:52.360
yourself? So I had conversations with
a few key partners ahead of time before
564
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:54.199
we launched and I was like,
Hey, I just want to let you
565
00:34:54.199 --> 00:34:57.960
know, like we're going to be
doing this and I just wanted to have
566
00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:00.800
like a conversation with you ahead of
time. Howw do you feel about it?
567
00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:04.239
What are your thoughts? I have
very good relationships with almost all of
568
00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:07.800
our whole thirty proof partners and very
close personal relationships with some of the biggest
569
00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:10.000
ones and to a point, every
single one of them was like, we
570
00:35:10.039 --> 00:35:13.840
think this is great, let us
know if we can help. Like they
571
00:35:13.960 --> 00:35:19.400
really recognize that a rising tide lifts
all ships, as one of them said,
572
00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:22.440
and the more valuable the whole thirty
logo is, the more valuable their
573
00:35:22.519 --> 00:35:25.719
logo is on their product. And
we've made a conscientious effort at whole thirty
574
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:30.880
two. We just work our own
products into the normal rotation of talking about
575
00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:34.760
products. So if you look at
even my personal instagram, it's going to
576
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:38.639
be incredibly well balanced in terms of
the products I'm using every day at home
577
00:35:38.679 --> 00:35:43.440
and what I share on my instagram
story. Like we're not putting our products
578
00:35:43.480 --> 00:35:45.880
ahead of any of our partners,
we're just working it into the normal rotation.
579
00:35:46.119 --> 00:35:52.199
So I don't think our community or
anybody feels like there's anything kind of
580
00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:54.440
odd or off about it. It's
just there's like another whole thirty product that
581
00:35:54.519 --> 00:35:58.360
you can use if you're looking for
a cell addressing. That's awesome. That's
582
00:35:58.360 --> 00:36:00.320
awesome. This is a pretty had
a question and we can take it in
583
00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:05.960
whichever direction you think is worthy.
But what do you think is maybe one
584
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:12.400
of the most misunderstood parts about nutrition
and wellness today? Well, I think
585
00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:15.719
there's a lot of competing information.
I mean that you could say this about
586
00:36:15.800 --> 00:36:20.239
any period of time. There's a
ton of competing information out there about what's
587
00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:23.199
good and what's not good. Food
is very often moralize. Certain foods are
588
00:36:23.239 --> 00:36:27.000
good, certain foods are bad.
You're good when you eat them or you're
589
00:36:27.039 --> 00:36:30.280
bad when you eat them, and
I think that's made even more pronounced with
590
00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:34.159
social media. It used to be
that if you heard someone talking about nutrition,
591
00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:37.719
it was like in your doctor's office
or maybe on like a TV show,
592
00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:40.360
and now it feels like anybody who
has access to like an iphone and
593
00:36:40.519 --> 00:36:46.400
instagram account can become an authority on
nutrition. So I like the idea,
594
00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:50.679
and this is what every like registered
Dietitian in the world will say, is
595
00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:52.639
you know, there's no one size
fits all. You have to figure out
596
00:36:52.639 --> 00:36:57.800
what works for you and I think
people really understand that idea and enjoy that
597
00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:00.000
idea and like want to embrace that
idea. But I think there's a lot
598
00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:04.159
of confusion about how to figure out
what works for you. So the reason
599
00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:07.639
I think that I like whole thirty
so much is that is the answer to
600
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:10.280
how this here. Take this self
experiment and use it to figure out what
601
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:15.159
works for you. And if what
works for you is eating nothing but gluten
602
00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:19.920
and dairy for the next twenty years, awesome, go do it. I
603
00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:22.400
think that's great for you. I
love that for you. If it works
604
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:24.320
super and if it doesn't work for
you, like find your own way.
605
00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:29.320
You know, we have a one
hundred percent plant based program now, so
606
00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:34.199
it's like if you decide a plant
based Diet works better or some combination of
607
00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:37.920
both. I I think one of
the most misunderstood things is just this idea
608
00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:40.320
that there's any one way that is
somehow going to be like a magic bullet
609
00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:44.639
for you and I don't think that's
true, even with my own diet,
610
00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:47.400
having done the whole thirty several times. It's I am always evolving. My
611
00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:52.360
context is always evolving, food is
always evolving, my health is always evolving
612
00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:54.880
and what worked for me four years
ago doesn't work the same way for me
613
00:37:54.920 --> 00:37:59.239
now. So the kind of bad
news is that it's always a process and
614
00:37:59.239 --> 00:38:02.000
you're always going to have to if
you want really optimal health and to optimize
615
00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:04.880
what you're eating and to feel as
good as you can, you're going to
616
00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:07.320
have to pay attention. But the
good news is that you now no longer
617
00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:10.920
have to live by anybody else's food
rules. You get to decide for yourself
618
00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:15.400
from a place of you know,
an educated, informed decision what works best
619
00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:17.880
for you, and I like the
idea of empowering people like that. What's
620
00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:22.880
one book that has inspired you personally? One Book that inspired you professionally?
621
00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:27.000
Well, personally, you know I'm
going to talk about the comfort crisis.
622
00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:30.400
I talked about that book all the
time. It's hands down one of my
623
00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:34.480
favorite books. It talks about by
Michael Easter and it talks about the idea
624
00:38:34.599 --> 00:38:39.320
that our modern day comforts, our
comfort in our level of hunger and our
625
00:38:39.400 --> 00:38:44.519
temperature and how cozy we are and
how hard we have to work. You
626
00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:47.800
know, maybe all of that comfort
isn't in our best interest and there's actually
627
00:38:47.840 --> 00:38:54.000
a lot to be said in terms
of managing stress better and training our nervous
628
00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:59.679
system to handle stress better, to
purposefully make ourselves uncomfortable once in a while.
629
00:38:59.719 --> 00:39:02.760
So that's a book for sure that
has inspired me personally and I recommend
630
00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:06.960
it to everyone. I think one
of the books that inspired me the most
631
00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:13.639
professionally is shoe dog by Phil Knight. I absolutely loved his story of building
632
00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:16.679
Nike and I think what it impressed
upon me the most was this idea that,
633
00:39:16.760 --> 00:39:20.599
like you think, all of these
big companies, these huge you know,
634
00:39:20.679 --> 00:39:23.719
the Nikes of the world, they
must have always had their stuff together,
635
00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:29.599
like they always had it figured out. And Shoe Dog was so brilliant
636
00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:35.119
and beautiful because you saw stories of
him like packing up shoes and his garage
637
00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:37.760
and kind of making things work as
he needed to make them work, and
638
00:39:38.039 --> 00:39:42.000
I just love that idea of going
behind the scenes and being a little more
639
00:39:42.079 --> 00:39:45.360
open and vulnerable and realizing like nobody
has it fully together and also that's okay,
640
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:50.039
and also that doesn't mean that you
won't get it together in your own
641
00:39:50.039 --> 00:39:52.639
way. So that was a book
that inspired me professionally. Yeah, no,
642
00:39:52.719 --> 00:39:55.880
no, I really appreciate you sharing
both him with shoot dog. I
643
00:39:55.880 --> 00:40:00.280
think that one of the big takeaways
to is there's so many times where Nike
644
00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:02.559
couldn't have made it. Yeah,
there's so many moments that it almost it
645
00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:06.519
didn't work out, and so and
of course, Nike, you know,
646
00:40:06.679 --> 00:40:08.840
one of the largest companies in the
world and you know, they obviously did
647
00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:12.920
work out. So maybe there's a
thin line between, you know, success
648
00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:15.239
and failure. It's funny shoot dog
is number one book that guess in the
649
00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:21.400
should recommend, but comfort crisis no
one has recommended yet. So I am
650
00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:23.639
so glad that you brought it up. It is a great read. My
651
00:40:23.719 --> 00:40:29.000
final question to you is, what
is one piece of advice that you have
652
00:40:29.119 --> 00:40:31.599
for founders? I think if I
could go back and tell myself as a
653
00:40:31.639 --> 00:40:38.039
founder this, I would say do
not be sucked into like the toxic hustle
654
00:40:38.159 --> 00:40:44.320
culture of entrepreneuring. You do not
have to light yourself on fire to make
655
00:40:44.360 --> 00:40:47.679
your clients and customers warm. In
fact, if you run yourself into the
656
00:40:47.719 --> 00:40:52.800
ground for the sake of Your Business, you're not actually doing anybody any good.
657
00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:58.920
So I would absolutely tell folks like
stand make sure you pay yourself first.
658
00:40:58.920 --> 00:41:01.079
Make sure you're sleeping, make sure
you're eating. Don't subscribe to this
659
00:41:01.119 --> 00:41:06.079
idea of like all sleep when I'm
dead or, you know, hustling seven
660
00:41:06.199 --> 00:41:08.000
or when you're sleeping, I'm working. Like no, no, we're done
661
00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:10.760
with that. That's like old news. Now. What we're doing is sleeping
662
00:41:10.840 --> 00:41:15.159
eight hours a night and we're taking
our mental health days and we are setting
663
00:41:15.159 --> 00:41:20.440
boundaries around our capacity and we are
making sure that we show up for ourselves
664
00:41:20.480 --> 00:41:23.280
first so that we can show up
for our clients and customers in our business.
665
00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:25.559
That's what I would say. I
love that. I love that.
666
00:41:25.719 --> 00:41:30.039
I totally agree that. Lissa,
thank you so much for your time.
667
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:31.559
This is so much fun to Chat
Oh Mike, it was great. Thank
668
00:41:31.599 --> 00:42:09.199
you so much for the conversation.
I enjoyed it. Thank you. And
669
00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:13.360
there you have it. It was
amazing having Melissa on the podcast. I
670
00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:16.719
highly recommend checking out her newsletter as
well, which you can subscribe to at
671
00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:22.039
Melissa Youcom also check out whole thirty
if you enjoyed this episode. I love
672
00:42:22.079 --> 00:42:25.039
it if you'd write a review on
the apple podcast. You're also welcome to
673
00:42:25.079 --> 00:42:29.320
follow me your host, Mike,
on twitter at Mike Guelb, and also
674
00:42:29.320 --> 00:42:52.280
follow for episode announcements at Consumer VC. Thanks for listening, everyone,
