Transcript
WEBVTT
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Hello and welcome to the consumer VC. I am your host, Michael,
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and on this show we talked about
the world of venture capital and innovation in
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both consumer technology and consumer products.
If you're enjoying this content, you could
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subscribe to my newsletter, the consumer
VC DOT substackcom, to get each new
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episode and more consumer news delivered straight
to your inbox. Our guest today is
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Patrick Chut found a partner of Ju
stappose. Ju Suppose is an inception stage
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investment firm. Some of the companies
they found it include ten care of and
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Dave faullward. Their process for how
they build companies is pretty unique, I'll
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be honest. We discussed their model, why their model is less risky than
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traditional VC and is process for finding
the right CEO to lead each business.
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Without further ADO, here's Patrick.
Patrick, thank you so much for joining
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me today. How are you?
I'm doing good. Thanks for having me,
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Mike. It's an absolute pleasure talk
to me about why you started and
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what is Ju suppose and what was
the initial insight that led you to to
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found it? Yeah, so just
suppose we're a bit of a unique investment
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or that in some ways Harkens back
to old school venture capital. And the
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real kind of big differentiator, if
I was going to summarize it at a
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bar ower drinks, is we're rather
than traditionally investing in companies where someone comes
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and pitches you an idea, will
spend years doing work in a space and
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then go and try to find a
world class athlete to partner with the start
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that company. And so a couple
of things that makes make our firm strategy
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different one. Rather than doing a
lot of things, which is the traditional
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venture model, we actually do very
few and so it forces a discipline on
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us to really get those things right, find the best absolute partners for them
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and really do those things very well. And then the second thing is because
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we take such wings and because our
model is usually premised on finding an opportunity
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of very complex space, we partner
with really, really experienced senior operators and
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that's a really, really important part
of our model. And so you know,
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I think to your question on the
insight, I've spent now over twenty
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years in the venture world and a
lot of what I saw and venture was
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not a good fit for me in
the sense that you had to spend a
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lot of time looking a lot of
things and say no to a lot of
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things to find the things that you
wanted to do. And I think what's
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really unique about our model is it
actually gives you the time and the space
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to go really, really, really
deep and you could almost separate the work
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that you do, diligence in an
opportunity, from diligence in the person,
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and then you could actually combine the
best of both worlds to start something,
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something that you want. I really
appreciate you sharing. I know you heard
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it off by saying exappos is what, maybe what traditional venture capital used to
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be. Do you mind explaining what
it was like, maybe when venture capital
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first came up, as as is
separate and maybe it was more formalizing to
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its own asset class and as well
as what you think venture capital has become?
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Sure, well, we could probably
have a longer conversation on the actual
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history of venture capital and how it
started. But but you know, I
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think if you think about, you
know, in terms of my comment,
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venture capital even twenty years ago,
forget seven years ago, but twenty years
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ago was a lot more. I
think of a craft investment asset class where
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you know the the venture capitalists themselves. You know, develop theeces had to
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go and search the world often because, you know, especially pre Internet days,
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where you didn't have information at your
fingertips, everyone wasn't tweeting at you,
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you had to go and actually find
the people or the spaces that you
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thought were interesting and often had to
construct what you thought the opportunity look like.
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Right. So you know, if
you had a very strong thesis in
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the space, you would go and
find really interesting entrepreneur operators. They would
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probably help you hold the insight maybe, and then you would take that insight,
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work with that operator and go build
something. And and I think a
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lot of great venture funds actually got
built because they were able to help construct
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those those deals. And there's still
other mentor funds like sorer Hill that do
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this as a core part of what
they do. I think, and again
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over the last ten, fifteen years, definitely over the last three to five
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years, in the world has just
become a place where information is a lot
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more available and if you're an entrepreneur, you're screaming everyone that you're an entrepreneur,
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if you're invent street, screaming everyone
that you're an investor. And so
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I think the function of the venture
capitalist in the traditional sense has evolved a
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bit, right, and so you
know, there's a lot of information that
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you have to process, there's a
lot of inbound that you have to deal
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with and in some ways what used
to be hard was finding that really unique
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thing, finding that unique person.
No one else was getting to them,
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convincing them, telling them what venture
capital was and then giving them the capital
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and support to do it. Now
it's a bit more you kind of know
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what could companies are out there.
You kind of know there's a lot of
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information out there and you kind of
have to do some sifting, but you
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have to do a lot of selling
to and so that's kind of what I
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meant. I feel like we're kind
of a throwback in that we construct everything.
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We don't do that many things.
We spend a lot of time really
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kind of hands on helping to build
the deals that we get into. Got
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It. So what I kind of
understand from this is what I think about
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traditional venture capital. Maybe it's a
bit more top down oriented or approach,
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where might be more specialized in certain
categories, right, and you look at
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what are the opportunities in the categories
and maybe go and maybe chase those opportunities
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there were. Right now, since
founders are pretty where venture capital is and
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obviously Vic's want to attract the best
founders, it's a bit more maybe bottoms
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up in a funny way, whereas
Hey, you know, entrepreneur, what
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is the actual insight here that you're
doing? And it's a bit less,
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maybe thematic, as it used to
be. If as for to say,
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yeah, I think that that's one
important vector of differentiation. Right. That
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the kind of time I like that
top down, bottoms up differential point.
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I would just add that the second
piece, I think even more old school
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venture. There was a lot of
the match making. You know somebody,
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you build this strong pieces, you
think this person would be perfect, come
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here, let me help do this
together, and that kind of match making.
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In the frenetic world now where deals
happen in two days and and not,
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you know, and we have all
these efficient processes where this we're interesting
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companies get surfaced and get accelerated.
It's a different sport. Yeah, now,
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that makes sense. How do you
think about and why? You know,
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your model, you believe is maybe
less risky than maybe currents venture capital.
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Yeah, I actually think it's quite
simple. We do more work and
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we say more, we say no
to more things, and then if,
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for the few things that we say
yes on, we set a really more
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high for the for the partner that
we can hand select to work with to
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build that thing. And so I
think, you know, it's kind of
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do a lot of work, say
no to more, say yes to less,
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and then, for the thing that
you're going to work on, make
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sure that your bar for the partner
that you're working with is very, very
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high. If you do all of
that, you probably will take risk out
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of the system, like I don't
think you know. So, said another
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way, I don't think that we
have some sort of arbitrage against traditional ventry
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capital. Like we don't. We
can't change the market to make the market
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less risky. What we can say
is, for the two things that we
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do every year, we're going to
make sure that the market is large.
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We're going to make sure we've spent
two to three years doing work, we're
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going to build tends of prototypes and
talk to hundreds of customers. We're going
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to then validate that, you know, from four or five different angles.
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And after we do all of that
and know exactly what the sport is that
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we want to play. Let's code. Then write out the kind of dream
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that the dream JD, the dream
kind of profile of the ask that you
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want, and then be willing to
take twelve to eighteen months, twenty four
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months, to find that perfect person
like and if you do that, I
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think the drawback to the model is, and there's a question then, is
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okay, well, if you could
do venture capital, that's risky. What
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are the what's the drawback? The
real tradeoff is we just can't do as
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much. Failure costs a lot more, and so if we're going to invest
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the resources we do and that kind
of model, we just have to make
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more certain that the thing that we
do works. Got To make more certain
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that the person we're working with is
the absolute right partner and we're going to
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have to invest a lot in that
thing to make sure it successful. So
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when you say do the work,
this is incubing a company, and you
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spend like one or two years validating
that this could actually be, you know,
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a large company and maybe a category
defining company in some capacity, and
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then you actually go out and you
pick who is the CEO that you want
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to be to partner with for this
company, is that is that roughly right
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in terms of like the early stages. Yeah, yeah, I think that's
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right. So we call that process
concept development and I think to your point,
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I think the way you describe it
is quite quite nice because it juxtaposes
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a lot of different, sometimes non
overlapping, functions together in terms of how
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we do it. But yes,
will we usually start with, if what
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we describe as an observation, it's
usually some sort of observation of the world.
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It's a true fact, and then
we will do a lot of commercial
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business, venture capital, private Acre
style research on that observation and will also
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do, you know, kind of
the creative aspects of the user research to
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design, the prototyping, the ethnographic
research to really see both sides of that
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picture. And after we do all
of that work and we validate that,
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there is a really large opportunity if
we pursue this for five to ten years,
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there is a very interesting mirror and
opportunity over the one or two years
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that we could diligence even more,
even more closely, because it's a lot
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easier to understand what's going to happen
a month from now, a year from
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now, two years from now,
that it is ten and once you have
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all of that and you kind of
have an idea, okay, what would
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be the absolute perfect person and people
to bring on to really attack that opportunity?
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That's then when we say, okay, let's go and do this.
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Got It. That's really, really
interesting. I mean, so start from
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the very, very beginning. What
is even the process in identifying like an
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observation, even if you have been
in examples of observation that maybe didn't make
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it to me be like the next
stage, for example, and how do
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you had to define like the different
kind of stages in order to eventually for
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this observation and idea eventually to become
a company? Yeah, it's so to
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start, how we define an observation? Is a true, verifiable fact in
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the world, and I start with
that definition because I think people are often
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asked like, okay, you guys, wow, you guys come up with
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ideas like that sounds so amazing,
like tell me how you come up with
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an idea and say, okay,
well, let's break this down to the
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component facts. Like what we actually
start with is pretty is actually quite simple.
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It's literally something that you can observe. It is a fact and if
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we all agree that that fact is
a fact. That's a good starting point
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for us to talk about. If
this is opportunity there, right and so
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and then then I'll get to a
couple of examples, but I would say
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at the observation level it could be
anything from I'm talking with Mike and he's
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saying, Hey, have you seen
this really cool thing? This thing is
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blowing up. Consumers love it,
like Oh, that's interesting. Okay,
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well, let's get to like what
is the you know, what is observable
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fact there? That could be the
inside for something. It could be a
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conversation with, you know, with
a spouse or the even a friend,
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and they're just telling you about a
big pain point they have. That probably,
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by the way, if a friend
tells you, you know what I
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really think, the roads in New
York City suck and there's a lot of
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potholes in New York City. I
don't know how useful of a fact that
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is, but that is a that's
an observation. We could put that in
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our observation. What that observation could
kind of filter out to a lot of
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different things, and so we usually
start there, which is let's find observa
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facts in the world that could come
from reading, talking with people, research
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we're doing, companies that we're seeing
in the market, and let's distill what
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it actually is that we're observing from
that observation. We will then go and
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say, okay, what are insights
that you can you can pull out from
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that observation and then maybe going to
your question. For an example, this
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is something that is an observation that
was true around two thousand and ten,
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two thousand and eleven, the I
phone pops up, it becomes this device.
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Everyone knows. It's just, you
know, computer in your pocket.
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But the real interesting observation at the
time that I think can sparked a lot
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of really cool companies is for the
first time ever you have a GPS always
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on device available in every car where
someone has a summart phone right. And
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if you step back and you think
about it like that is actually a pretty
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interesting observation. Like before you couldn't
do anything that looked anything like taxi dispatch
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because no one had people had to
have taxi dispatch machines in their car for
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you to communicate with them, or
you had to call them on their cell
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phones. Now suddenly you have this
device that is always on and has GPS
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beeping every moment. And so what
does that mean? Well, you could
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see that that observation will tell you. Well, there's going to be a
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lot of radio interference in the car. Can I build something around that?
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Now we have all this information flowing. We construct to track traffic flow.
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Well, what can we do for
that? Or you know, probably like
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you know, backing into maybe something
like an Uber or lift. You now
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have the ability to do on demand
dispatch. You can now send cars to
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somebody anywhere, anytime, right.
And so in that that's not an example
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that led to a company that we've
built, but I think it's an interesting
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it's kind of an analog around with
an observation. That's its basic as GPS
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always on in cars. You could
have fifty or a hundred different interesting insights
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than can then drive you to a
business opportunity. Yeah, that makes a
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lot of sense. How many kind
of observations you typically do or have or
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analyze maybe in a three month period, if that's fair to same. I'm
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not too sure what the amount of
period length is. And then kind of
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go into insights and then how many
do you do you think about on the
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insight side? That kind of graduate
maybe from our observation to a okay,
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this is actually a compelling insight through
it, and then kind of going down
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your funnel into you know what,
this is the one thing we want to
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pursue this year, in the next
couple years, in order to make her
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into an actual business. Yeah,
it's a good question and I think,
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like all, like a lot of
answers to really good questions. There's some
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new wants there, but I'll give
you some number because I think at the
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high level, and then I'll tell
you what the nuance is. Right.
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So I would say in a given
quarter we probably process, we probably track
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five hundred to a thousand observations,
of which we may talk about ten percent,
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like somewhere between fifty and a hundred, right. So in any given
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quarter because, again, observations are
we're not very precious about them, because
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the observation itself is just a fact, right, and and the fact,
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if we all can agree on the
verified fact, then that is useful because
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as a baseline at least, no
one will argue. Mike, that it
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might give you said that you really
feel like New York City doesn't have great
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Mexican food. The fact could be
that Mike said that New York City doesn't
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agree with Mexican food, that doesn't. You know whether that's useful or not's
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another question, right. But we'll
track like hundreds of hundreds of those observations.
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What will then happen is we will
prioritize from that observation some that we
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think are really useful and we will
start to do diligence and work around those
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observations to understand if there is a
business use case or an insight into that
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observation that will then maybe be the
spark for a bigger opportunity. And so
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in our process, usually that starts
with more of a commercial lens, and
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when I say commercial lends, it's
trying to understand from the observation what is
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the business opportunity that exists. And
so you could see, you know often
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that that, I would say,
looks sometimes like what you think of Private
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Equity Fund or a venture capital principle
would be doing like okay. Well,
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if in that observation, if we've
generated some concepts around that observation, one
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of them is text taxi dispatch.
Okay. Well, well, let's start
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by saying what is taxi dispatch?
What does that market size look like?
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What does that Industry Structure Look like? Is it very G is it very
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geographically bound as a national what are
regulations around that space? What are pain
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points that taxi drivers have? What
are paining points and consumers have? You
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know, what are thing what are
technologies that have been enabled and not enabled
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in that space? And so you
kind of start by taking that fact and
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then generating in different insights that then
allow you to build some sort of idea
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around a market. And then,
once you have that, I think for
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us we kind of describe the process
as a bit of a bow tie.
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You kind of are generative, you're
looking at a bunch of things and then
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you're starting to become really brutal and
we cut a lot right. And so
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I would say that out of any
out of a hundred observations we have,
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if we spend actual time on ten
or fifteen of them, out of the
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ten or fifteen will probably cut two, three, D and twenty five very
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quickly right. And the reason why
I see there's a little bit of nuance
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here is our funnels are not nothing
ever really dies in our funnel. A
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lot of things. What you basically
say is, wow, the place that
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we ended up going down in.
That dig ended up in the dead end,
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but there's usually some learning there.
And I could go back to a
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couple examples of companies we built where
it's been in our process. It took
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three or four years of work.
That didn't mean we had five people working
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one hundred percent time three to four
years. It meant that they kind of
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a recycled and they were they re
entered the funnel because a new insight was
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was derived from work and then later
on we came back to it. And
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so you know, if we have
let's say five hundred observations and we do
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work on fifty, it's like fifty
to seventy five of them. We quickly
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get down to five to fifteen things
that we're spending a lot of time on.
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Usually, for each of those things
will probably do at least four to
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six months of work before we green
light it, and usually we start one
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to two things a year. And
so that's kind of the funnel. It's
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a pretty brutal funnel, like we
just don't do that many things, I
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trust to post. Yeah, I
know exactly, because I know you only
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launch one or two companies a year. So I'm always kind of intrigued because,
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I mean started off from five hundred
to a thousand observations and then narrated
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down to fifty to a hundred maybe
insights, all the way down to that
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kind of fifteen number where you're quite
deep into the inside of the observation and
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kind of going on there. I
mean, and I'd imagine, what do
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you say? Things are maybe recycled
is it's a type of thing where it's
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like, okay, this is really
interesting, this other inside is other observation
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or category we find particularly this might
be the right moment in order to that.
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We're going to concentrate on this idea. Maybe we'll table that for for
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next year per se. Yeah,
it's a really good question. I would
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say when things have taken a long
time or we enter the funnel, it's
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less about US having been intentionally this
is the wrong time and usually more of
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wow, that is an interesting insight. This is going to take more time
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for us to dig into. And
we have this other thing that we're looking
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at that is deeper in terms of
US understanding the opportunity to space. Why
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don't we focus on that thing?
And so I'll give you a really good
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example of this. In our portfolio
we have a company a called Orchard.
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It's in the real estate space.
It really like the value proposition to the
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consumers to make it as easy and
seemless to buy a car at home as
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it is a car, so really
making that transaction a lot simpler. You
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know, the company is now,
you know, more than a dozen markets
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and, as you know, a
couple billion dollars of GMV. What's interesting
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was that company existed in two cycles
before we actually started the business. And
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the real interesting the initial insight that
we had that got us down the road
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of building what is effectively a full
stack, vertically integrated brokerage that does that
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makes life really easy for consumers,
was completely unrelated to making loaves really easy
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for consumers. The initial the initial
insight that we had was looking at what
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was happening in the single family homeworld
and where you had these big private equity
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firms and these big investment firms who
are able to in a matter of years,
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go and price very accurately by turnaround
and sell homes in a bunch of
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different markets. And we said Wow, oh, like twenty five years ago,
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and this goes to like a core
a core concept that we really are
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a core principle that we think is
really interesting for us to find businesses with
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this idea that there are obsolete assumptions
that a lot of people in the world
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hold and if you actually have an
insight that breaks that obsolete assumption in a
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large industry, you can clean a
lot of value. And in this case,
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what was the obsolete assumption, the
obsolute assumption, was its own unique
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thing and you can never do that
at scale for single family holms. You
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can never have an investment firm that
does all that work, that does that
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for thousands of homes within a quarter
in a you know, in a part
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of Phoenix, and through a combination
of technology, better algorithm and pricing and
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better operations, these investment firms basically
prove that that was obsolete. That is
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actually not true. You can do
that. And so when we saw that
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we said, okay, if that
is true, what else? How else
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does that apply into real estate markets
that currently are held back because they continue
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to hold that obsolete assumption? Wow, that's really, really interesting. What
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are some insights? You might have? Have Very, very capelling insight that.
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Okay, there's an opportunity here,
but how do you maybe separate that
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opportunity from making sure that they this
is actually the right time we're to actually
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start this business and not to maybe
wait a year two, if that makes
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sense. Yeah, we tend to
look for look at Evergreen Industries and Evergreen
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spaces where we think the opportunities are
large and we're actually trying to be overly
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precise around timing. Is a bit
of a fulls errand so that might sound
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a little bit of a strong statement, like and what I mean is like
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I think through our insight process and
you know, we do a lot of
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work that's more commercially oriented, but
we do a lot of work that's user
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oriented. I actually think you know
what you say, when you say timing
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is off, what I hear is
there are parts of our concept that actually
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we can disprove using our work right
and so when you say timing is off,
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for example, I think often what
I see in the venture markets is
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you have this great technology, like
really interesting technology. It's Ai, it's
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Vr, it's web three or Crypto, but we're not sure actually how that
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thing will be used right in in
your words, that could be an example
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of maybe that's something where timing is
off in our work. What that would
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mean is like if we saw we
thought web three was really interesting technology,
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or cryptoor or whatever machine learning are, we would then say, well,
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we have to have a thesis around
how that's in create value. And the
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truth is our process of probably while
we talk to a thousand users, we
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would test these feces and what would
likely happen is people are like, that's
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really cool, but I'm not ready
for that yet. I'm not going to
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buy that thing. I'm not I
don't understand how that's going to change my
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life, and so that's how we
would uncover that the timing is wrong.
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I think we actually are almost in
the opposite side of things, which is,
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let's choose opportunities that are so large, that are usually complex, that
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are hard to immediately arbitrage, such
that if it takes us one or two
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years to find the right person,
we're okay with it, like it's that
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big of an opportunity. It's that
it's going to be around for that long.
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In your process for you know,
creating companies and of course, you
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know launching maybe one to do companies
a year or every couple years, what
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is the hardest part of the entire
process. Is it recruiting, for example,
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and partner with a CEO, or
is it figuring out, since you,
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I'm sure you have several incredible insights
and opportunities, figuring out the exact
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one that you want to focus on
and be able to focus? What do
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you kind of think about, you
know, in the kind of studiom model
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that that you have, which is
very concentrated, what was the hardest part
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for you and your team? A
lot of it is hard and fun and
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I think the the challenge is actually
what makes it so so exciting is you
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know you kind of hit it right
and you're like wow, we've you know,
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we've really created magic. I would
say I think the bottleneck, the
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limited the limiting region in the reaction
is the exact right founding CEO for the
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right business. It's finding that match, but it's really on the talent side,
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and that's not to discount in any
way. Getting to really interesting insights
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and large spaces is hard and validating
that you know you kind of have an
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idea of what we describe as the
wedge pieces, but like the first couple
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of years, like knowing that you
built something that's going to have really economics
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is really going to stand by itself
and gets you gives you the chance to
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go and take the big venturous swing
like that's all difficult, but I think
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our strong view is having all of
that and then not having the right person
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is kind of not the right strategy
for juxtapose and in fact that would kind
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of start to break the flywheel that
we have, which is a few things
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doing them well, that working,
that attracting other really great people and that
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fly wont going. And so for
us, you know, it's sometimes painful
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when you're sitting on something that you've
spent twelve, eighteen months to work.
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You know you want to do it. Time is taking by, companies are
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getting built in the space and you're
just sitting there waiting to find the right
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person. But you know, in
our experience getting that right person is so
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important to we have to do it. Yeah, no, for sure,
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for sure, absolutely. What's one
thing do you think that you would change
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about venture capital? Overall, it
the whole business adventure. There are great
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venture firms and I think venture capital
right now is opening up a ton of
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opportunity for entrepreneurs. You know someone
with you know, an idea, insight,
385
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it's hard work. You know,
a couple friends beyond a computer can
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start a company. I think this
is generally it's an amazing asset class that's
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creating a lot of opportunity. I
think to your question, maybe not necessarily
388
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something that would change, but something
that does maybe frustrate me or give me
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ankst is that venture that, I
think, the actual true art adventure is
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about depth and it's about deep knowledge. It's about understanding something in a way
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that other people don't, having a
countertuitive insight. You know, some people
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talk about narrative violations, like a
violation around something that everything believes it is
393
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true. It's really like a Eureka
insight and I feel like right now the
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market is a lot of noise.
Everything is a sound by it. Everything
395
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is kind of a hundred forty characters
and they in that world it's hard to
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get your mind focused on trying to
go really deep, and so if there's
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anything that I would I would love
to see is less noise and more folks
398
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like kind of seeking truth. Yeah, and I think that and again,
399
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there's nothing wrong with this, just
just a different way to do it.
400
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It just seems like there's also,
you know, a lot of funds where
401
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are quite large funds but in terms
of your actual going deep aside of it.
402
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You know, they might not take
a board teat, for example,
403
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even they they made like a big
investment into a company, or it might
404
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not even go, you know,
that deep in terms of the actual that
405
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company itself. So it's pretty interesting
what's been happening. What's one book that's
406
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inspired you personally? One Book that's
inspired you professionally? You know, actually
407
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there's a book that I just read
which is kind of sits at the juncture
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of both. So it's kind of
a compot answer. But four thousand weeks
409
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by Oliver Brookman and it's it's interesting
book. It's about a journalist journey on
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thinking about time and when you read
the title it kind of sounds like a
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selfhelp book around how you manage time, but it's actually secretly a it's kind
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of a it's a philosophy book disguise
as a selfhelp book. You know,
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I read it. I think I
read about four months ago and coming out
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of this period during, you know, during covid and postcovid where time feels
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more and more abstract. You're in
front of your computer, you're in front
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of zooms all day and you know
all the normal things of life, all
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the normal milestones and markers of life, you don't have. It's really interesting.
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The book talks about not thinking about
how you manage time, which makes
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time feel like a resource, something
that needs to be controlled, and more
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about thinking about yourself and your life
actually just being time and that's it,
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and what that means about how you
how you spend your time. You know
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what what counts, what doesn't count, and and I feel like it's just
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a I think it's a really interesting
book as we continue to move this world
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where maybe you know, you could
still spend your time behind something like a
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screen twenty four hours a day,
and the way the reality of time feels
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less tangible and it's really kind of
gives you a bunch of different perspectives on
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00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:15.160
how to think about time. Yeah, I really appreciate you. You're very
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original. Had anyone mentioned four thousand
weeks? So really say that that's our
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book list. My final question to
you is, what's one piece of advice
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that you have for founders? I'm
going to sound like a bit of a
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00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:30.400
broken record here, because I think
I spoken about this a couple times now
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00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:33.759
on this during this great conversation,
but I would urge someone who's thinking about
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starting a business or even in the
process of thinking about a company they want
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00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:41.359
to join, I would urge them
to really look and seek the differentiated insight
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that either that company has or that
they think they have when thinking about the
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00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:48.440
thing they're going to start. Right
and even if it's not a space per
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00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:52.160
se like, what is it that
you see in the market that other people
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00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:55.799
will disagree with and, if you
are right, is going to be worth
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00:27:55.799 --> 00:27:57.839
a lot. I think there's I
think, again, going back to this
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00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:00.759
point on is they're being a lot
of noise. It often feels like there's
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00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:03.920
there's a lot of me too in
the market and there's a lot of I
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00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:07.920
think the space is interesting and hot, which again, I think is not
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00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:10.759
bad from a I want to experiment, I want to learn standpoint. I
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00:28:10.759 --> 00:28:14.599
think the technology is really cool.
I think really great businesses get built off
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of the backbones of insights that are
either counterintuitive or that helped to prove obsolete
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00:28:19.279 --> 00:28:22.920
assumption that others have, because then
you could do your zigging when everyone knows
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00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:26.440
a Ya getting. I think it's
actually valuable. No, I love that.
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00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:27.839
I love that. I think that
that's a really, really great piece
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00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:32.200
of advice. Think some for sharing. Patrick, thank you so much for
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your time. I really appreciate you
coming on the show. No, Mike,
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00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:36.640
Thanks for having me. This is
been a ton of fun. And
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00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:38.279
there you have it. It was
such a punder tiding with Patrick. I
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hope you all enjoyed it as much
as I do. If you enjoyed this
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00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:44.920
episode, I love it if you'd
write a review on the apple podcast.
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00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:48.640
You're also welcome to follow me your
host, Mike, on twitter at Mike
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00:28:48.640 --> 00:29:11.680
Guelb, and also follow for episode
announcements at Consumer VC. Thanks for listening, everyone,
